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Comment by joshumax | Hacker News Reader

Amazon has a major issue with screening against knockoffs and counterfeits, and the severity of the issues surrounding this grows every day. For instance, my friend bought a camera that looked similar to the Arlo, but it contained a telnet backdoor. Another would ping a strange AliCloud VPS over UDP that appeared to contain data related to network configuration without any explanation or ability to be disabled, short of router firewall rules. As knockoff vendors get more clever at disguising their devices as the one's they're trying to copy, an increasing amount of less-technical users become ever-more at risk regarding their security and privacy.

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Fundamentally, it reminds me of eBay without the feedback score. I (and probably many of you) know / knew that when buying from eBay, the seller is really some person in Milwaukee, or a warehouse in New Jersey. I checked feedback ratings, history, and so on for each purchase. My mother knows this too.

In Amazon, I know to try to do this, but I don’t quite trust that what I bought came from who it claims to be. My mother has no concept of a “third party seller.” She just knows “it’s on Prime!”

IMHO the Amazon user experience tries to explicitly bury the 3rd party “bazaar” inside the “store,” and (some time ago) successfully managed to mingle them both into a single “marketplace.”

When I’m shopping for a 1978 printing of a book, I want the bazaar. When I’m shopping for a Chromecast, I want a “store.”

The problem on Amazon is that it doesn't matter which vendor you buy from. If it's Amazon or 'fulfilled by Amazon', all the goods are intermingled. It's like going to the bazaar and paying your money to the trustworthy vendor but when it's time to get your item, a dog goes and grabs your item from any random vendor he sees that looks like the thing you bought.

You can request your products not be commingled, but by default, they are.

You should make it clear that this is on the merchant's side. Consumers are not allowed to choose where their purchases come from.

So interestingly - I’m an amazon shopper who’s unhappy occasionally. Where to I flee to? I want to buy a new cutting board. Where do I go? AliExpress? Walmart?

Local retail stores are always an option, plus you get to make your decision based on more than a grainy or staged picture and likely faked reviews.

More importantly, the customer can't tell if there is commingling.

There is very likely a person or group at Amazon that considers this a feature, at least when product commingling was introduced.

In an ideal world with no counterfeits, product commingling is an efficient thing to do, and if a product is commingled, there is no point in giving the 3rd-party seller top billing, the customer should feel like they're buying from Amazon.

True, but that's useless to the customer, who has no idea of whether commingling happens or not.

The other day I found myself needing printer toner. Amazon has a much better price, even when they sell it themselves, than local stores. But then I see that along with the "sold and shipped by amazon", which is still quite cheap, there are dozens of even cheaper options, some of which are fulfilled by Amazon anyway. So how do I know I am buying a new, original cartridge, an honest, quality refurb, or something that might print badly, or even damage my printer? Even the sold by Amazon merchandise, which I'd hope is original, could be comingled with a refilled knock off that might be indistinguishable out of the box, but will be very different in operations.

For something like this, as a consumer, I absolutely need to know the provenance of what I am purchasing, and the chance that there is commingling means I cannot buy something like this from Amazon, as I won't even be able to tell for a while.

Does Amazon do this in .de/.co.uk/.es/.fr presence, too, or is this only a .com thing?

.co.uk is the same.

Happens in .de too.

I've never heard of counterfeits (by 3rd party, fulfilled by amazon) being mixed with official products(sold by amazon) on .fr (yet). Any pointers on this being done for .de ?

Except that the dog is an exhausted human being wearing hand-tracking wristbands [ https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/31/amazon-patent-hand-track... ].

I've been working on tech inside the Amazon Fulfillment Centers got the last six years. I travel to different FCs every week in my current role. I have never heard of nor seen these wristbands.

Amazon has a tool to make it very easy for any idea anyone has to be patented. If I think it some crazy idea today, I can fill in a form describing it and lawyers will see if it's a valid patentable idea, then file the needed paperwork. Half the ideas may never be thought about again. That's where this came from, almost certainly.

Just because Amazon patents an idea doesn't mean it becomes real. It just means that if they ever decide to do it, they can't be sued by someone else who patented it.

Fair enough, but there have been quite a number of stories about working conditions in Amazon warehouses, and it doesn't sound particularly pleasant, hand-tracking wristbands or no.

On a side note IBM has a similar process for parenting things. We’ll obviously cover content that goes into a product, but we also allow more hypothetical ideas assuming they Pass a series of tests for value originality and some other points.

Exactly. My fiancé bought a board game from Amazon. Some of the die cuts for stuff weren’t quite lined up with the graphics. We contacted the creator and their answer was that it was counterfeit.

We left a bad review of the seller. I challenge you to find that - and even better - who’s to say it was that seller or another bad actor that polluted the stock?

There's also the mixing of reviews, even across models, which makes it much harder for the uneducated user to weed out the bad eggs. The entire Amazon user experience is designed to hide the mixed source nature of their inventory and instead make it appear like a unified storefront.

This phenomenon has ruined amazon reviews entirely.

Why does crap like this always happen? Can’t we not just keep the things that work well?

It's interesting looking at the reputation and practices of amazon and ebay over the past 20 years. Ebay started out with random individuals, and slowly became more reputable as it attracted large sellers of knock-off brands. Amazon started out with decent brands, then slowly became less reputable as they picked up large sellers of knock-off brands. At this point, they occupy essentially the same space, despite starting off with completely different bases.

>Amazon has a major issue with screening against knockoffs and counterfeits

Does it ever! I refuse to buy expensive electronics or equipment on Amazon after getting burned with a knockoff Bose headphones and SWISSGEAR luggage. You don't even get the benefit of cheap prices as those things were within reasonable range of their typical retail price (and with luggage the price fluctuation is always high). It's insane.

Apparently you can even be denied Global Entry for buying from Amazon: https://www.racked.com/2018/1/8/16849298/amazon-counterfeits...

That was a very interesting read, with a few points about sharing of listings pages I hadn’t previously considered, thanks for posting it! The main point though, around being flagged for importing counterfeits is particularly concerning to me as a frequent traveller...

I'm sure they're allowed to do this since the membership agreement is incredibly strict and allows for no room for mistakes, but that doesn't mean they should be. Generally speaking, laws take into account intent and treat cases differently (or not at all) based on what the intent of the action is.

It's pretty clear here that the person didn't intend to import a counterfeit bag (why pay full price for it?)

How did you see it was a knockoff? What gave it away, just curious.

For the Bose headphones, I went online and found some guides that pointed out things to look for.

For the SWISSGEAR luggage, I went to a retail location and inspected the same model ... also, couldn't register the serial number.

Both knockoffs were of pretty good quality, but not at the same level as the originals.

Don’t buy name brands from 3rd party sellers on Amazon. Pretty simple. Purchasing on amazon isn’t about getting a “deal”, it’s about getting something at or around retail price without having to go to the store. If you are looking for cheap name brand items, go to TJMax or something.

Amazon comingles goods in their warehouses between themselves and various sellers. You can buy something sold "by Amazon" and get sent an item sent to Amazon by a third party seller.

Right, meaning fulfilled by Amazon. But they have the brand registry indicating that something is “of a brand”. So you are saying that these products can be counterfeits? The item from the post says it’s “by wish power” not google(the logo is certainly alarming though). It’s a knockoff sure, but a pretty obvious one. I order everything from Amazon and I have never ever had a single problem with that. I am a pretty diligent shopper so maybe that helps?

Right, so when you buy things from Amazon you have several options:

1. Items sold by Amazon. 2. Items sold by 3rd parties and fulfilled by Amazon. 3. Items sold by 3rd parties and shipped by 3rd parties.

The problem is that items in their fulfillment centers, (1) and (2) are mixed together. Just because you buy something sold by Amazon doesn’t guarantee that you won’t be sent a counterfeit item that a 3rd party sent to amazon to use for fulfillment.

Is there a source confirming this?

Was this not exactly the problem with eclipse glasses last summer? People who ordered the real thing were being shipped dangerous knock-offs.

This article [0] seems pretty comprehensive. I recall there being a thread here on this topic fairly recently but I can't seem to find it now.

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2017/12/13/how-to-p...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId...

Everything except for topical/consumable items and items with an expiration date can be conmingled.

Thank you for finding that. It's hard to believe they haven't considered the potential issues that arise from this. Or they have considered the issues and found it financially viable to ignore them.

There is actually a new category of products sold and shipped by third parties that still count as prime shipping somehow.

we have Prime products that we mfg, sell and ship directly. basically you have to be very diligent about shipping by their cutoff times and use a service that guarantees the delivery date and must generate your shipping labels through amazon so they can track it all. we hooked up our existing ups account and dont have to purchase shipping through amazon. we ship out all orders same day (not just amazon) but it's easy to lose Prime status if you fall behind.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16498013

Just a few days ago this was on the front page, an article by a small business owner selling their product on Amazon complaining both in the article and the comments that even when a product is in the brand registry they are woefully ineffective about dealing with counterfeits.

This not-Chromecast is a really bad example because it's not actually claiming to be a Chromecast, but I have certainly ordered products on Amazon and received knockoffs before. Inventory comingling makes it basically impossible to ensure you're getting what you order because even if you order from a reputable seller it might come from somebody else entirely.

I consider myself a sophisticated internet user and even I can't really tell how to know if a seller is the "real brand" page or not.

I recently bought a Hario coffee grinder. I looked at what I thought was the official page for the item on Amazon (not a third party seller) yet 10-15% of the reviews all complained about receiving a counterfeit. That's when I gave up and bought it at Williams Sonoma.

That brings up another big Amazon issue. Reviews for related but not identical products hey thrown in together. It's supposedly the same product in this case, but different vendors. So the product reviews aren't the right place in this case. Sometimes these get grouped in the same listing and you can see vendor ratings under purchase options (clicking "new & used"). I feel I've seen this not frequently with books though. Talking about books. Here Amazon throws all versions together. Kindle version has typos from bad OCR? That review is now going to be for all versions. A foreign language book has multiple translations? All get the same review. I recently wanted to buy a particular translation of The Brothers Kamazorov. That was a incredibly frustrating experience. Several versions available didn't list the translator in the description. One I found the right one and clicked on Kindle version I'm surprised to see a totally different translation. On top of that the bulk of the reviews are talking about how a particular translation is bad. It's just a giant cluster fuck.

I bet part of Amazon’s motive is the fact that people are more likely to buy something if the reviews are good, and there’s a lot of them.

Maybe. Funny enough though I looked into buying The Brothers Kamazorov a year ago or so and have up because I didn't know what translation to buy and the reviews all being mixed together just fed my confusion and I have up. I only came back to it because someone on a podcast recommended a particular translation.

Could you name the podcast and the translation?

As almost everything I talk about it happened on econtalk: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2018/02/jordan_peterson.htm...

The translation is by Constance Garnett. They only mention the book in passing. If I wouldn't have been wanting to read the book since years and called Russ Roberts highly the podcast wouldn't have made me want to read the book. It was in no way the topic of the episode or even close.

I get the sense that there’s something wrong with reviews, too. It’s as if it’s far too restrictive to be able to write a negative review or the seller has far too much freedom to prevent negative ones from posting.

My anecdotal case was buying a lamp for a DLP TV. The seller claimed to provide a 1 year warranty and mine burn out after 11 months. However, there was absolutely no means to contact the seller. I tried reached out to Amazon to get it, but to no avail. Finally, I resorted to leaving a negative review about the product and seller. Within a day I was sent an email saying my review violated some rules that state I’m not allowed to be critical of the seller, only the product. I was flabbergasted. So I rewrote it without any direct mention of the seller and the same thing happened. At that point, I just gave up. The seller is still there, selling non-existing one year warranties.

There are item reviews and seller reviews - they are entirely separate. In this situation I would definitely agree that it is too restrictive, because seller reviews are limited to 90 days after purchase.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=aw/...

Unless they do commingled inventory, then you may be getting a counterfeit even when purchasing from the name brand store. The discussion about that comes up regularly enough on here, so it’s not hard to find references.

> Don’t buy name brands from 3rd party sellers on Amazon

No, don't buy name brands from Fulfilled by Amazon sellers (including Amazon itself) on Amazon, only from known-good third-party non-FBA sellers (exception, Amazon is okay if there are no FBA sellers for a product), since Amazon commingles inventory from FBA sellers (including themselves), so you never know which seller actually sourced a good purchased from an FBA seller.

There’s something seriously wrong if this is the advice being doled out. It’s as if we’re ok with the haphazard shopping experience and there’s a set of guidelines on avoiding being scammed. It’s the kind of thing I never have to worry about with so many other retailers but we all stick with Amazon because Prime perks.

One last case, some manufacturers are the only sellers for their product (like Anker).

> Purchasing on amazon isn’t about getting a “deal”

No, it is, or at least it was. When online shopping got big, up until a few years ago, the prices were usually better than physical retail (but with higher latency due to shipping). It only got popular because you were getting a deal (if only dodging sales tax), and most people were conditioned to think that online shopping = good deal (compared to physical retail).

But you're right, in 2018 Amazon's for paying retail and gambling that you didn't get a counterfeit (the chance of which varys depending on the kind of product), and then waiting for it to arrive.

For me that doesn't make any sense, so I've stopped shopping there for anything I can find locally in a retail store.

For me that doesn't make any sense, so I've stopped shopping there for anything I can find locally in a retail store.

People often say that media like CDs and DVDs/Blu-rays are on the way out and it's all online downloads now, but at least here in the UK I still buy probably 90% of the films I watch at home and maybe half of the TV shows on disc, because the likes of Netflix simply don't have a big range of big name titles, or don't get them until several years after they come out.

Sadly, most of the good local stores where I used to buy discs have closed down, in large part thanks to online sellers undercutting them and driving them out of the market. The likes of Silver Screen, where you could go in and browse for almost any film or TV show you liked on disc and probably pick up something new to try on an offer while you were there, have gone the way of the dinosaur. All that's left is a few of the recent blockbusters in the big stores. I'm not convinced this is progress!

We do at least still have one decent bookshop in town, which is a blessing because Amazon's handling of books is apparently so careless that I was returning a crazy number of them just because they arrived marked, ripped or otherwise not in brand new condition. I've gone back to buying the majority of my books, and anything I possibly can if it will be a gift, in bricks and mortar stores so I can see it's in good condition before I buy it, and where I can also browse for related material that I might also like to pick up while I'm there.

Tech-wise, I wouldn't trust Amazon for anything more sophisticated than a network cable or USB hub. This is a merchant that ships hard drives in over-sized boxes with a bit of tissue paper for padding, and then seems to have trouble understanding why we decline the delivery. There are plenty of specialist tech merchants who will supply more serious gear packaged properly, from reputable sources, and typically at about the same price anyway.

I use to buy my electronic from specialty shops. Cameras from B&H and audio from Sweetwater. I switched because my purchases were less frequent and as much. My day to day work is education and I do side work and small videos for work. I know that B&H has had problems with ethical treatment of their workers and were fined $3.4 million by the labor department. One I heard things have been corrected and that things are different there but they actually were the only place I could go to get everything I needed. If you make a Purchase Order you don't want to fill out multiple of ones from new vendors.

Fast forward to last week I was given a budget of about $6,000 to purchase company equipment and I looked at Amazon for 2 minutes and went right to B&H. After I submitted my order to my company I looked up everything on Amazon to see what I was missing. Well everything was bundles or weird price ranges with only 1 or 2 items left for sale. After 45 minutes I realized that it was a mess and I couldn't come up with a clear answer of how much anything was going to cost unless I had a credit card (We do purchase orders) and just looking things up it was a whole $50 less. Glad I went to a single seller.

well one issue is that the counterfeit gear is pushing out legit items. it is a bizarre day when I resort to buying from Ebay sellers to get what I want.

now I have not see the issue in food products, I tend to buy certain condiments and garnish type items via Amazon as they are not locally available but given time and Amazon's looking the other way with the marketplace I expect it

The last expensive electronic item I got from amazon was a surround sound speaker. It can beat up as shit in a box. I ordered another of the same speaker off eBay, came in pristine condition.

That explanation doesn't make sense in the current case though. I'd imagine, the usual difficulty in blocking counterfeits is telling them apart from the real product - which you do want people to sell. However, if you already make a point of blocking the real product, shouldn't blocking counterfeits be even easier?

(I could imagine you still have problems with products that just "happen" to look almost - but not quite - like the original, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. The link shows products that look exactly like a Chromecast, even though the actual Chromecast is blocked.)

So: amazon manages a fairly... unmanaged marketplace. There's a lot of cruft and some fraud. I get the impression it's not quite as bad here (amazon.de) as the reports make amazon.com sound, but deception is a huge problem; and quality in general is variable.

But having said all that - this is such a poor example to start complaining about. Nothing in the product description sounds like a counterfeit; it's simply yet-another possibly poor-quality competitor to the chrome cast. And sure, the supplier made the really dubious decision to include a chrome-logo-shape in the actual device. But the seller isn't amazon; and the description doesn't use anything to hint at it being a chromecast - so it's unlikely people looking for a chromecast will be mislead (or indeed even manage to find this thing).

All in all: this sounds like the seller is possibly counterfeiting, but it's not a great example of amazon tolerating counterfeiting, because it's easy to imagine a reasonable middleman might never have noticed.

The way Amazon handles disputes and poor quality goods is beyond frustrating. I bought a security camera with a motion sensor that was supposed to text me if there was movement (I was traveling through some less savoury countries and wanted to know if anyone was checking through my room) and the thing broke in the first day or two. Of course the buyer refunds me a token dollar and Amazon's refute process somehow doesn't work.

My new strategy with Amazon is simple: If it's a book, sure. Otherwise no way, I can't trust anything there. I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action suit against them by now for all the counterfeit / poor quality goods / spyware.

I've stopped buing books aswell. If only Netflix could buy over Jeremy Clarkson then all would be well.

Oddly enough, I've found that I can usually find better deals on books from other sites. And the one time when I needed a book to arrive quickly and so had planned to buy from Amazon (to get fast shipping), they didn't have the book in stock.

Not even books are safe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13924546

Re: "All in all: this sounds like the seller is possibly counterfeiting, but it's not a great example of amazon tolerating counterfeiting,"

Less than ideal example? Possibly. But still valid.

Amazon. One of the few 800 lb tech terrors. And they're doing what to solve this problem? Tolerate is being too kind. When you're making the choices they're making you're an enabler.

All the revenue. All those resources and...that gets them a free pass? That's disturbing.

What should they do, exactly? Even they got sold a bunch of counterfit Apple chargers. The sellers are using OEM bar codes and the surface of the items match the OEM virtually perfectly.

Amazon is basically providing a goods laundering service for criminals. There's not much difference between what they're doing and what someone is doing who is fencing stolen goods.

If they're going to comingle goods, then they need to put their own tracking onto the goods so that it is possible to know who provided the goods to which buyers. Either that or require that each item has a unique rfid or other identifier. This would allow tracing of counterfeit goods back to the supplier.

As it is, when you buy something that turns out to not be legit, you have no real recourse, and often the wrong supplier gets dinged.

What should they do?

Are you suggesting Jeff The Genius - who has aspirations to put a man on the moon - can't figure something out? Somehow?

The better question: Why are they doing nothing?

The answer is obvious.

Pretty sure Amazon has the resources to:

1. Only stock counterfeit-prone items verifiably sourced from the real manufacturer, e.g. Apple, LV, Bose, etc.

2. Stop commingling inventory from multiple sources, which totally prevents any crowd-sourced detection of counterfeit sellers.

3. Increase manpower devoted counterfeit detection and enforcement. This could even include randomly pulling items from inventory and testing/inspecting them.

4. Detect obviously fake items, such as 1 TB microSD cards priced at $10. This can done through pre-listing manual reviews plus automation.

5. Give users obvious ways to signal the mothership about counterfeits, and take action on the signals.

6. etc.

In short there's all kinds of stuff a company with the resources of Amazon can do to solve this problem. The fact that they're doing nothing is telling.

It's not like they seem to be facing any consequences for selling shoddy or even dangerous goods.

They've actually been proactive in removing items that are reported as dangerous. I had my eye on a juicer, but a review had posted that they noticed some plastic shavings showing up in their juice.

The next day, the product was listed as no longer available.

N=1, but there does seem to be an effort.

That's reactive, not proactive.

I used to only have a policy against ordering food items from amazon but after I ordered a couple bottles of Neutrogena face wash (standard stuff we've always used) and it made several people in my family break out immediately after using it I won't order any soaps or toiletry products either. If Amazon could guarantee there was no comingling I'd pay extra for some things for it.

I worry about when Amazon starts offering medicine, more than anything else. Fake drugs can and will kill people.

For prescription drugs, no way will they co-mingle third party sellers.

It's reasonable to expect that they won't even allow other pharmacies on the platform.

They already sell things that could get people killed. There are horror stories of children getting lead poisoning from Amazon toys.

Amazon already sells OTC drugs, including allowing third party sellers. Fake OTC drugs are almost as dangerous as fake prescription drugs (fake prescription drugs are more likely to be dangerous just by not being a good drug, but either is equally dangerous as a bad drug.)

It would help if vendors used serial registration. And perhaps they could include some signature item in the package that is difficult to copy. Electronic products would be perfect to hold a signature.

Might this be a legit use case for a blockhain solution?

No. The source of truth is the manufacturer, so you don't need a "trustless" solution. You trust the manufacturer.

I wouldn't trust that they are who they say they are unless they can prove it. Also I don't trust anyone between them and me, including Amazon.

If they signed products with a cryptographic key, might actually be worth something as proof of who they are.

Sure, but that's just regular old cryptographic signatures + a web of trust. A blockchain doesn't help at all to prove who someone is.

Eh, what would a decentralized ledger hosted by multiple parties bring to the table here? Trying to see your reasoning on invoking blockchain.

An idle thought perhaps not well thought out. But I was envisioning more than the simple Manufacturer to Amazon handoff, something like a new type of individual-item-specific UPC where you could continue to track ownership even through hip-to-the-system OfferUp style apps. The privacy implications are scary, and I'm not suggesting there's a viable or good idea in here. Thus it was a question. :-)

Would that be a feasible B2B service between suppliers and Amazon?

Blockchain isn't the only cryptography

Manufacturer has a keypair. They include a QR code that's the digital signature of the combination of your name & the product's serial number. You use their public key to verify

Why would the manufacturer bother instead of just telling you to not buy on Amazon and buy directly from them? On any expensive item that people research it seems like it'd be in their interest if Amazon got a reputation for selling fakes, to break the habit of people who only look on there.

Only if Amazon got that reputation in the broader market. Otherwise, manufacturers would potentially benefit from retailers having a more difficult time claiming ignorance about which items in their warehouses are fake.

This would effectively mean that every manufacturer were a retailer, because they would need a direct relationship with the ultimate buyer. Whether you like Amazon or not, that kind of retail model has proven incredibly valuable to shoppers by aggregating sellers that would be too hard to find individually and eliminating the need for a manufacturer-end-buyer relationship.

A solution like this would also limit alienability of property. I buy a DSLR and register it with the manufacturer. Two years later I want to resell it to someone else and discover my manufacturer either refuses to issue the new QR code to the buyer, or wants to charge a "reasonable" or "nominal" fee of 25% of the fair market value of the good to effect the transfer.

This is why a distributed-trust solution like blockchain actually might not be overkill, in spite of its buzzwordiness these days.

Or to return to your idea, instead of the person's name, transfer to an ID that's backed by another keypair. The buyer now has the authority to sign away full ownership without asking the manufacturer for cooperation. Of course, this means the manufacturer and each seller in the chain now has to have a tech-support department for people who lost their private keys or forgot the keychain password....

The digital signature of the serial number would probably be sufficient. That’s not a bad idea.

Finally! A legitimate use for blockch...

Nope

Alibaba disagrees. Amazon should take a look.

https://medium.com/@alitech_2017/blockchain-based-qa-the-end...

Just because you can force a blockchain onto something, doesn't mean you need any of the features a blockchain gives you. It just means you really like to say "blockchain".

https://digiday.com/marketing/amazon-grows-transparency-prog...

Excerpt: "The way it works is roughly like a serialization or UPC code. The brand buys the codes from Amazon and puts a unique code on every unit it creates for sale on Marketplace. All the codes are serialized; Amazon will not accept items without codes."

I tried to sell shoes on Amazon and they definitely demanded loads of documents from me before allowing me to do so.

Perhaps Google hasn’t registered their products with Amazon? It could even be intentional on their part.

Just buy an Alexa / GoogleHome / Nest / SamsungSmartTV and wave your privacy goodbye. It's a free-for-all out there for invading your privacy, and the big players are in the lead. No need for obscure knockoffs.

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