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Comment by astronautjones | Hacker News Reader

The insurance point deserves further discussion - in many states your normal coverage is voided by driving for profit. So if you get into an accident where they can prove you were working, you aren't going to get anything. I know many people who are driving for Uber and Lyft and have no idea about this

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Oh yeah, insurance and financial products in general are just silent murderers of people's finances. Families get wrecked financially for generations to pay for this stuff and they don't even realize it's happening.

And in order to even be eligible to become an Uber or Lyft driver, you first must navigate through that minefield of auto loans and auto leases and insurance companies. And Uber and Lyft is the opportunity that convinces you that it's a good idea to do that (more similarities to Herbalife).

I say all this as someone who uses Uber and Lyft almost every day. The drivers think I'm paying them to drive me somewhere, but what I'm actually doing is paying for them to take on the liabilities/debt/depreciation associated with owning a vehicle. That's where the value is for me, it has nothing to do with them driving.

Both Uber and Lyft have insurance policies that cover drivers and passengers during rides, and in most cases the maximum coverage per accident is $1 million.

https://www.uber.com/drive/insurance/

https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013080548-Insuran...

However, the insurance provided by Uber and Lyft only cover when you have a passenger in the car -- they don't cover you when you are driving to pick up the next person. And your own insurance also doesn't cover you during that period, unless you buy a separate commercial rider.

that's not true. it covers the driver while the app is on.

https://www.uber.com/drive/insurance/

> While you’re online with Uber before you accept a request, you are covered by our insurance policy for your liability to a third party if you are in an accident when you’re at fault

Only when you're at fault?

If the other party is at fault, their insurance should cover their liability for your damages.

... if they have valid insurance and if they don't flee the scene.

Both of these statements are false, at least here in Canada. My insurance knows exactly what I'm doing and I'm covered at all times [0]

[0] https://www.intact.ca/on/en/personal-insurance/vehicle/car/u...

When I last renewed my insurance it offered me coverage for driving for rideshare for an extra $50 per 6 months (I think - I've never driven Uber/Lyft, so I didn't look too closely).

If I'm remembering it right that sounds like a very reasonable price

1 million is a laughable low coverage. Get into a single accident where someone has to get emergency surgery, a few months in the hospital, and then needs physical therapy to walk again. One million is gone faster than you can imagine.

1 million is far far higher than what most people carry. It's plenty.

Interesting. In Germany the lowest legally possible coverage is 7.5 million € for damages to a person plus 1.22 million for other damages, but 50 to 100 million is the general coverage. Just to give some perspective on how expensive accidents can be.

Is this for commercial or personal drivers?

Personal drivers. Prices might be higher than in the US but it's hard to give an exact price or even a range because it varies a lot by vehicle type. I'm paying about 600€/year for a small and older VW. But a bigger car doesn't necessarily need to be more expensive because the parts to repair it could be cheaper or it's less likely to get into expensive accidents due to break assistance.

I'm also covered for accidental damages caused by me outside of my car for up to 100 million € and that costs me only about 70€/year.

I’m paying about $1700/year for $1m coverage for two newer sedans with a combined value of about $40k. You can’t buy more coverage than that in the US without going to an insurance agent. It’s available but as a specialty product aimed at wealthy people. Most car insurance websites won’t quote coverage that exceeds $300k or $500k. The legal minimum, which is what many (most?) people have is like $60k.

I’m sure some of this is due to the differences in our healthcare and legal systems. Ironically, it seems intuitive that Americans should have higher insurance limits than Germans, not the other way around.

This is putting some stuff Uber did in Germany into perspective.

When Uber Pop launched in Germany insurance companies were quick to publicly state that no driver using Uber is insured under their personal policies and they needed to opt into commercial policies that are multiple times more expensive.

Then Uber stepped forward and put out a big anouncemnt that every driver is insured for up to 1 million €. Everybody was like "yeah, okay, that's not nearly enough to be allowed to drive here in Germany". Nobody understood why Uber would make such a dumb statement. Now that you explained how it's handled in the US, I'm not surprised anymore.

Have a look here: https://www.thebalance.com/understanding-minimum-car-insuran...

People are recommended to have more than the minimum if they own a home, or otherwise have a lot of assets to protect.

Commercial requirements are much higher.

It works different in the states because the person or property being injured also has insurance, which will cover them. Insurance covers you not the person or property being injured.

So if you smash a building with your car, the property owner will collect from their insurance. That insurance company will then sue you, and your insurance will cover you. If you don't have enough insurance, they'll take what they can get, and if you don't have any property or money, they'll give up after that.

That sounds insane, even with American medical prices. How much are insurance premiums in Germany?

I just don't see how anyone could cause that much damage with their vehicle.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16499582

It's pretty easy to do so much damage. Imagine turning left without looking and an oncoming truck tries to avoid a collision and drives into a store front. Property damages will be very high and the injured people inside the store will need medical attention, too.

Also sounds like the truck's fault.

I caused something similar and accepted the accident as my fault.

I back-exited a parking space and turned left immediately after, while the truck tried to avoid me by going in the incoming lane; if he just hit the breaks without swerving I would most like have been killed.

That’s what Steve Wynn said about his elbow!

Uber and Lyft both now verify that you have supplemental insurance. It's kind of screwy. If you have a passenger in the car, Uber/Lyft coverage is in place. If you are driving around working but no passenger, it's the driver's rideshare insurance - which is typically a rider on their personal policies. This probably changes regionally, but that's how it works in California.

Which is a good first step... but if I'm injured at a regular job? workers comp will cover my own bills and lost wages while I recover(usually even if it was my own goddamn fault) - Uber drivers don't get that benefit, and they are a lot more likely to be injured on the job than I am.

https://help.uber.com/h/ba03b1db-46f9-4350-9a39-8a98b83f813e

Uber is partnered with a company that provides driver injury insurance for ~4c/mile.

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