Does this look familiar to anyone?
founderscoop.com
founderscoop.com
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Unforced Oops
Dunces Of Poor
Poser Fund C.O.O.
http://crashdev.blogspot.com/2008/04/sincere-apologies-to-pa...
I don't get the need people seem to have to put these YC clones down. Yes, copying the application is lame (we'll see if the guy responds), but having more options is a good thing. If your idea (YC) is any good, people will try and replicate it, and that's what we're seeing here. The early-stage-seed whatever area is not some kind of network-effect amped winner-takes-all market where PG needs to grow things at an insane pace to grab market share. Far from it, he does well by his funded companies to dedicate his time to them, and not worry if people copy his idea.
Local is a definite plus, having to move to Boston or Cali can be a deal-breaker for some I'm sure. I'm waiting to hear when a Canadian equivalent pops up myself ;)
They also had one other interesting idea I haven't seen before, which is that they ask companies to put up 5% to a pool that's shared among all the startups from that funding round. They figure that will encourage more collaboration and help, since everyone wins a little when anyone in the group wins. That was in their FAQ. I wonder how that will turn out for people in practice.
Other than the unattributed copying of the YC application... This seems like a totally different deal. He's not just giving a tiny bit of money to fresh college grads and making you move to San Jose for 3 months, it looks like it is going to be an actual co-op where each group accepted gets part of the pie from everyone else, and its not only limited to 10k. I live in Seattle and have 2 little kids, so I can't exactly do the YC thing, so I'm actually kind of fired up about this idea. I've read about the two founders of this group so it seems legit.
It is a bit disturbing that he took everything exactly... even the parenthetic remarks which make him sound like PG.
But, other than that glaring trust-killer, it does seem pretty cool to have an alternative to YC, which is just not feasible for me.
Still think they sound legit?
But, it is definitely concerning. I wrote him an email just now and gave him the link to this thread. If he writes me back I'll let you all know.
http://crashdev.blogspot.com/2008/04/sincere-apologies-to-pa...
How does that feel, bitch?
It's shady but it goes on. Be glad some light was shed on this particular misuse and skip these guys if you don't agree with their actions.
They won't hurt YC's brand and they won't injure the value of the YC companies. This type of thing -- whether an act of theft, laziness, or both -- only hurts the offender. Just looks at some of the other comments in this thread.
I'm with aristus... this isn't anything to get excited about.
Just the blatant plagiarism.
Before the days of standardized applications forms for colleges, it was a pain in the ass to fill out the same types of questions. I think it's rather lazy of them. However, since they're all going for startups, it's rather likely they'd ask a set of basic questions. It might do to have some sort of standarized basic set of questions, and then tack on one or two specific questions for that particular program.
That (unethical or merely incompetent?) is the sort of interesting debate they've created about themselves.
But when YC has all the cred which serves to give a nice profile boost to YC-funded startups, what can these others offer that amounts to the same thing? There's the community, experience and hookups with further funding opportunities, but these knock-offs just seem like they're lacking in comparison to the full value proposition YC offers. I wonder how they can compensate for that...
And what of this, "Well, they're going to suck..." Do you think YC was perfect right off of the bat? Really? Sure, the copy-cats will be rough at first, then they'll, like most ventures, find ways to differentiate themselves and do their thing or die.
Or is the big objection that they copy-and-pasted the form? Other than very minor copyright infringement, which I'm sure they'd rectify if asked, it's obvious that they just went live. I can think of dumber ideas than copying your role-model as a place-holder until you have time to rewrite the form.
It's about making yourself look like a total asshat by copying someone else's writing verbatim and passing it off as your own.
> which I'm sure they'd rectify if asked,
"If you have to ask..."
> then they'll, like most ventures, find ways to differentiate themselves and do their thing or die.
There's a YC copycat in India that differentiates itself by posting armed guards to keep you in your office until midnight. And not let you sleep. Seriously.
There's a famous line by Igor Stravinsky. "Good composers borrow. Great composers steal."
If you're working on something, and you see someone else that's got part of it righ, by all means copy them!
I don't mean plagiarize them, but emulate what they're doing and figure out the parts that you're good at. If you read through what this co-op is about there's some interesting stuff there. They're trying to get people in Seattle for a year, are offering more funding and trying to build integration between the companies they're investing in. This is a good thing. Ask them to reword their questions if you must, but cheer these people on! Comparing this the Indian proposal from a little while back is just silly.
Interestingly, he probably stole that quote from T.S Eliot: "Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal"
They DID plagiarize. Nobody's objecting to other seed investors, just the plagiarizing.
What they SHOULD have done is asked YC for permission to use their application, then said "we are using YC's application with their agreement in order to make things easier for applicants".
http://www.ciieindia.org/?page_id=93
"(The team has tried to be funny with having framed the above rules - obviously none of these rules are for real. It was a failed attempt to be humorous, which unfortunately not a lot of people understood :(. However, guys/gals with less than average IQ and humor - who fail to understand the humor in the above para may not kindly apply. Being fun-loving and sharp are pre-requisites!!)"
I don't know why writing about establishing some kind of sweatshop in a poverty-stricken country would be seen as funny. There are a lot of places that have conditions like that, no joke.
To anyone who knows the first thing about hackers, it's obvious how to do this: give full credit to YC, praise YC to the skies, point out that not everyone is suited to YC and argue that there's room for more than one. Differentiate yourself by being Seattle-focused or whatever.
Add in to that the absolute certainty of getting caught on the internet (hell, you can automate the process), I'm just amazed that people still do it. I just don't understand their thinking at all.
I'm a little iffy on whether I feel this is terribly unethical-- an application is not really a creative work. I do think it shows a lack of creativity! I can think of 2 or 3 questions that I'd add/adjust if I was spinning up an early stage outfit.
1. They are creatively challenged.
2. They are professionally challenged.
3. They are ethically challenged.
Suppose you get involved with them. What do you imagine would happen as soon as a difficult situation came up?
Personally, this tells me just enough to run, not walk, the other way.
What data could anyone possibly add that would change my thinking?
When I wrote, "What data could anyone possibly add that would change my thinking?" I never expected an answer. I just read the Crash Dev apology, and that's the data.
My apologies. Now I understand the difference between "learn" and "infer".
I think this is probably a case of then launching this before they even had a web site up and getting buried in random solicitations. They probably tossed that up there just to start getting coherent submissions.
In fact, the application is designed to discriminate against people who would be bad founders.
Heh
I think having YC in your corner is a boost; these guys look like they'd HURT your chances. Why would you want people who are unoriginal and unscrupulous dragging you down?