Review: Tesla Model 3 lives up to hype
detroitnews.com
detroitnews.com
* I don't want to be at the whim of some designer's ideas as to whether when I switch navigation screens my fuel gauge and current speed should shrink or move to a separate area for better design flow. I want them at the same location no matter what.
* I don't want the added complexity of the entire entertainment and navigation system working against the stability of the system. I don't want poor quality of some random widget crashing my only information display.
* After the Jeep hacking a few years ago where there wasn't enough separation between the internet connected devices and features essential to operation of the vehicle, many commenters here were saying anything without an air-gap between the internet and CAN-bus is a security problem.[1] That may or may not be extreme, but putting everything together like this means I really want to know what steps they've taken to segregate and secure high-importance data channels in the car. I really hope the answer isn't "we have software that is responsible for firewalling access." When it comes to something like this, I really want some physical and/or hardware level separation.
Having seen and dealt with the Model S screen before, no thank you, not interested.
Really, the whole "remove all tactile console controls and slap in an iPad" thing seems lazy and tacky.
- find and tap "vehicle settings"
- find the "autopilot" text label and tap it
- now find the "+" and "-" buttons and tap them to adjust
When it's raining I usually adjust the speed of the windshield wipers very often depending on precipitation level and spray of the car in front of me, the last thing I want to do in a reduced visibility situation is to have to futz around with a touch tablet to do so: I want a rotating dial on the stalk so I can change things without having to look anywhere else. Apparently on the model-3 this setting is also part of the tablet interface.
I cannot believe that when you have tons of "distracted driving" laws to prevent people from texting while driving, manufacturers are allowed to produce cars where you more or less need to text to actually control the car.
I am all for technological advancement, but having a tablet-driven car makes as much sense as having a tablet as your desktop keyboard where you'd have to look down all the time to figure out where the keys are.
Voice control is a good things for services but not for driving related controls, it's a QOL increase to be able to tell your car "set the a/c to 67 degrees", but let's leave the driving related functions (lights, wipers, cruise, ...) to hardware buttons/dials on the stem where they belong.
I don't know if that was a new zealand thing, or a campervan thing. However from what I've googled, it's becoming a more common feature. https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/459/what-is-a-speed-limiter
I know Mercedes often have that extra resistance level, since I've relatives' Mercedes some (I don't know if it function in cruise control or speed limiting in any way). I always found it annoying, because it came with what felt like a lagged and softened engine response until you utilized it. That just made the cars feel like they had two modes when starting from a stop sign, too slow or too fast, depending on how hard you pressed. :/ Perhaps I would have adjusted better if I drove one for more than a couple days.
Edit: Good points about the emergency cutoff being feasible, I stand corrected.
I personally never even look at the car with speedometer in the middle, just cannot stand the looks of it. Maybe by the time I will be able to afford Model 3 I'll grow not to mind their interior looks, but at this moment it's the most horrible looking interior I have seen. Seems more like something what hobbyist would do rather then automaker. Sad really.
They are usually set up to mitigate shift from far to near focus and how far you have to look from the road; they actually keep your eye closer to the road than traditional behind the wheel instruments.
The Model 3 megatablet isn't like those displays.
IMO, most automakers put too much crap on the dash and it eventually breaks or becomes outdated. I have two cars with built-in navigation systems that are essentially useless to me because they don't include traffic information.
I have this problem all the time. Often the top is cut off by the steering wheel. I adjust the seat and the steering wheel to fix it though, not a big deal.
I like Mazda's HUD system (think some luxury cars have had such solutions for awhile) which allows you not even change the focus of your eyes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZdisJihI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dr02z6tgss
What would be cool would be a long thin OLED screen where the instrumentation normally goes. And physical controls with a Taptic-style feedback mechanism for navigating dynamic interfaces.
This would allow for a more fluid, updateable UI while still keeping important info in the eyeline.
More expensive than just slapping an off-the-shelf LCD panel wherever it’ll fit I guess...
Once you have speed & navigation on the windshield you don't look elsewhere for that information. It's easier and safer, so it feels like a new standard. When I drive other cars it's something that I really miss.
remove every single tactile element. have convenient touch interface. have usable voice control. that's the future. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes.
Edit: what is it with people not reading the message before commenting on it? that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes.
What about having buttons and knobs just because you can use them without looking at them? Because that's what makes them extraordinarily useful when compared to a touchscreen.
> remove every single tactile element. have convenient touch interface. have usable voice control.
Just to imagine out loud: you want to change lanes. In order to activate your indicator, you have to look down at a touchscreen, or say "Car, activate left indicator!". I struggle to see how either of those could be an improvement on the current controls. Now I come to think of it, the wheel is a tactile element! Maybe we could implement a left-to-right slider on a touchscreen you could use to control car direction?
I get that you're not actually advocating for that, but I also don't think we really need to test out the hypothesis to know that it's a bad idea.
In practice, the inability to do things without looking over to make sure your finger is in the right place is a big problem.
It’s far too easy to hit the wrong thing or hit nothing. There’s no good way to judge how much you’re adjusting something without looking at it.
It’s infuriating. If it wasn’t for the tactile controls on my steering wheel I wouldn’t have bought he car. It’s that bad.
Voice control. No thanks. Optional for the stereo perhaps, but I absolutely do not want a car that's voice controlled where I can travel with 4 other humans. Kids are noisy. Teen friends might find it comical to shout out "handbrake!". Need I go on?
Yes, I know tactile switches and knobs are so last century, but they look like actually the best tool for the job.
obviously not for anything driving related. there's still plenty left: radio/music, ac, navigation, phone interactions.
i don't really know where people got the idea i was talking about driving related instruments. they are almost never "buttons and knobs".
This being a french car maker they obviously skimp on having adequate performance - interface is slow as hell. Just increasing ventilation is a 30s process.
It actually made me rethink my purchase an go for a different brand.
I know buttons are expensive if you want good looking + ergonomic ones (a tablet is a great cost saving measure), but its worse for todays cars.
For cars in 5 yr time touch will be the norm and not a problem since full autonomy vehicles remove the worry of keeping your eyes on the road.
I would really count touch as a minus for tesla, but it sure is visionary. Kindof like we hated iphone for going with touch and no physical keyboard. It's stkll shitty bur we addpyed. Sort-off ;)
How often do you look at your car's thermometer, clock, compass, stereo, HVAC controls, or seat warmer switch? I would say 2 or more at least 2 times per car ride.
In my experience I am either on small roads where the person in front of me or the windiness of the road artificially limit my speed to something around the speed limit. Or I am on a busy road where I am traveling close to the speed of traffic regardless of the speed limit.
About the only time I check my speed is when I feel in danger and I want to rule myself out as the cause or when I see a cop car and I want to avoid getting pulled over.
From what I have heard in reviews, the speed is displayed in the top right corner of the display and is no harder to see than a regular speedometer.
In particular when you drop from 60km/h to 40km/h during a school zone. These are often continuously monitored by speed cameras and subject to excessive fines and often loss of license. And if you've ever been in a high end car this drop in speed is often hard to notice.
So yes, a lot of the population are constantly checking their speeds. Otherwise you at risk of losing your license and if you cause an accident going to jail.
My point is that where I'm from I typically don't get to decide my speed because it's dictated by externalities like traffic or road conditions. I also have a pretty good idea of the speed I'm travel and when moving through speed control zones I know if I need to slow down without watching my speedometer like a hawk.
Most people I know would get between 5 and 10 fines per ride if they did not check their speed.
I don't want to have to take my eyes off of the road to see my speed.
Humans like controlling things via touch. Ironically, since touch screens are smooth, there is zero tactile feedback. It's impossible to use it without looking at it, and if the driver is looking at the screen, they aren't looking at the road. This is especially true because of the touch screen's position relative to the driver.
A head up display projection directly on the windshield, directly in front of the driver (with control buttons on the steering wheel) should be the bare minimum for any modern car.
As a point of reference, my Ford has their new Sync 3 system, and I often need to steady my hand by resting the thumb just past the edge of the screen. Many controls are available on my car as physical knobs, levers, and buttons, in addition to the screen, but some things like setting dual-zone climate control or manually moving the vent between floor and dash are screen only. And I typically can only mess with that at a stop light.
Now the counter-arguments on the Tesla would include that their self-driving capabilities decrease the risk of looking at the screen for a few seconds, and the screen placement probably helps too. But I'd still like to see some long-term reports as situations arise, such as when a passing truck sprays water/mud on the windshield and you need to quickly increase the speed of the wipers to high and put the windshield wash on. Or a rapidly changing climate condition causes the windshield to suddenly fog over (doesn't happen that often, but it has for me periodically), and you need to take a glove off to get the screen to work.
My other gripe is that the screen isn't molded into the dash, but on a stem sticking out -- it doesn't really look like it is part of the car. And looking at the pictures, the only thing I can think of is that this was a cost cut, as it is probably expensive designing and manufacturing all the normal dash controls.
But then again, I could be wrong, but if not, I really hope the rest of the industry doesn't follow. And I hope that this isn't a trend for Tesla, and future models will have more driver friendly controls.
Good point -- this screen would be basically unusable in much of Houston, TX, due to rough roads.
I have a Cadillac XTS, and it is a 100% touch interface. I cannot do anything with the radio/climate without taking my eyes off the road. I absolutely hate it. It doesn't respond well in the hot Texas summers, and requires more effort to operate than even the cheapest in-dash car UI. Contrast to my friend's Audi, which I can do most things with the center mounted dial without looking, just by memorizing how the console feels.
To belabour an obvious point: when you are driving a car it is vitally important that you keep your eyes on the road. When you are operating a mobile device, much less so. So hardware controls are far more useful in a car than they are on a phone. Touchscreen keyboards on phones are a trade-off - what you lose in tactile feedback, you make up on valuable screen real estate. That logic doesn't apply to cars either.
They also said SD card are going away, that hasnt worked out so well. Neither has the headphone jack for audiophiles.
If anyone at Apple reads this comment, for the love of god fix your cords. Fake Chinese dongle/cords are better than the ones you guys make which is atrocious from a company that brands itself as high quality.
Here are your macbook pro power charger reviews of which 152 out of 170 reviews are 1/5 mostly because they are so fragile they break: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD565LL/A/apple-60w-magsa...
Here are your iphone jack to headphone jack reviews of which 376 out of 479 are 1/5 mostly due to breaking: https://www.apple.com/shop/reviews/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...
Tactile controls facilitate use without having to look at them, so you can keep your eyes on the road where they belong.
Or could I sell it off to someone who now wants a Tesla Model 3 faster?
That being said, you can try buying the car and re-selling it immediately.
Whether someone would take you up on that offer is another question.
The second sentence helps explain the first: people who would miss the buttons don't become Model S owners.
Btw, detroitnews.com is a navigation nightmare - popup after popup, auto play ads
Yes. Making cars is hard. Making them with a low defect rate is harder still. Making a completely new car on a completely new line is super hard, especially if the cars have to be relatively cheap.
Is that accurate?
I don't know but I'm pretty sure manufacturing a completely new car in volume is challenging for any car company, including those that are 100 years old, have tons of money, existing factories and lots of employees.
Tesla is ramping up pretty quickly too, though. I think the main difference is that Tesla is being watched by everybody and they’re getting production cars out early. When GM takes some time to ramp up production, people mostly don’t notice or don’t care.
For one example I was personally interested in, the plug-in hybrid version of Mitsubishi’s Outlander has had its US release delayed five years due to production constraints. I think it might finally be available, judging from their web site. I really wanted one back when it was supposed to come out in 2013, but in the intervening half decade I bout a Tesla, reserved another one, and no longer want to buy something that burns any gas.
Not yet available in the Bolt, but maybe in the next model year.
Where do you get this idea from?:
"Now, a new report from Navigant Research has dropped, rating the relative positions of various firms racing to develop self-driving cars — and it ranks Tesla dead last, behind the entire field."
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/262510-new-report-self-d...
It's one thing to claim Tesla are really good (and that might be a stretch). But unmatched? Based on what evidence?
From my research, the Leaf is far behind, but the Bolt and Model 3 seem very similar almost to the point where I'd guess driving style and heater usage would make up the difference.
I haven't seen data yet on the Bolt. The other child comment suggests it's favorable, though. If new data shows the Bolt as having similar longevity to the Tesla then it's more of a contender for me, although I don't think highly of GM or their cars in general.
I'd also like a Civic Type R, but the wait-list on those is just as silly.
They're making great cars, but you have to wait for them.
Estimated 20k in December and ended up being just 1,500. May as well have said they'd make a million of them lol.
The original official (from Tesla/Musk) estimate for mass production (5k / week) of Tesla 3 was 2020.
In 2014 they moved that back by 2 years to early 2018.
In late 2017 they moved that forward by 6 months, to mid 2018.
So depending on which official estimate you're looking at, they are either 6 months late or 1.5 years ahead.
A friendly correction: funnily enough, the terms 'moving/pushing back' and ' moving/bringing forward' in time work in the opposite way to how non-native English speakers (such as myself) tend to understand and use them. The mental image I use to remember it has the event looking at me from the future, so bringing it 'forward' moves it closer to where I stand, in the present.
Still, at least the car seems great. Being a year behind in production is not going to matter that much in the long-term, even if say 50,000 people cancel their orders. They'll probably keep the pipeline full for the next 3-4 years, while still steadily increasing production. I'm sure larger carmakers have had such delays for at least some of their car models, too.
I thought it was the production hype that had investors worried.
And if you're living on Mars...your Roadster is on its way