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Comment by pault | Hacker News Reader

I've had fallen arches since I was a kid. Is there something I can do to fix it? There was a point where I was doing a lot of barefoot running on the beach and being extra careful to focus on my ankle and foot posture, and I think it helped, but as soon as I stopped running every day I reverted to my old posture (ankles rotated slightly outwards, feet as flat as a board).

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I solved most of my back problems by switching to entirely flat shoes. No arch support at all. No heel drop. No sculpted foot bed. Thin soles. They are basically leather moccasins with a 3mm vibram sole.

While making the adjustment, my calves and tendons hurt for a month or so. Then they adjusted, and wearing regular shoes (dress shoes for events) feels so awkward and unnatural that I cannot stand it.

Contrary to what one might imagine, this did not give me flat feet, but exactly the opposite. My arches have never been stronger or more well formed.

My gait entirely changed. I tend to either place my foot down flat, or put down the ball first.

>I solved most of my back problems by switching to entirely flat shoes. No arch support at all. No heel drop. No sculpted foot bed. Thin soles. They are basically leather moccasins with a 3mm vibram sole.

sounds like mine, these are what I use: https://www.softstarshoes.com/

what do you use, if not those?

Yep, that's what I buy. Best price you can find for something like this. The only real alternative I have found (for same or similar quality) is using a cobbler, for about twice the price.

I've been wearing these Xeros [1] for a few months now and love them. My gait is noticeably different, and my arches are stronger (though they were not particularly weak to start). I do walk more slowly now though.

[1] https://xeroshoes.com/shop/closed-toe-shoes/hana/

Wow, the arguments for using thin soles sounds good and I would honestly be willing to give them a shot. But those are some ugly looking shoes :)

They have a lot of options.

http://www.softstarshoes.com/primal-runamoc-1.html

This is what I wear:

http://www.softstarshoes.com/dash-runamoc-1.html

Vivobarefoot makes some great ones as well, and some look normal enough to wear to an office. I have their running shoes and hiking boots as well, all are great!

https://www.vivobarefoot.com

I had the exact opposite experience, in that getting shoes with more and better support helped really correct my gait and give my knees much-needed relief without much other change to my routine. I also have orthotic inserts but I had those before.

I had a fallen arch on one of my feet for as long as I can remember, and doing mindful stretching daily is helping me fix mine. It's a really painful process, if this is anything like yours. Muscles were far too weak in the areas required to use my feet properly, all over my legs.

I'm not a healthcare professional but I would start with stretching your hamstrings like the article says and stretching your feet, getting to know the muscles that you have down there and how they work when you move your feet. You can follow a course or a guide, it may help, but know that every situation is different and you need to listen to your own body, experiment with some motions that you've never tried. Guidance might be good at first, but just don't stop listening to your body and try to avoid making it do something it doesn't want to do, but be aware of it. Unconscious avoiding of stiff or painful muscles gets you in this mess, so if you catch yourself mindlessly going through the motions (it does happen, often), take a moment to assess what kind of trouble you're in at the moment, muscle-wise.

Strengthening all of your leg muscles will help awaken the nerves in your legs. I can't remember the name, but it's a huge one that runs from your hip all the way to your toes that is the culprit of flat feet. Help your legs do work the right way, and then you'll start to see that you don't have to put much conscious pressure on the front of your feet at all to stay in balance.

What kind of mindful stretching, if you don't mind me asking? I have a fallen arch and I'd love to get some resources to fix them.

You could give arch support insoles a go instead of splashing out on expensive and ugly orthotic shoes.

https://nuovahealth.co.uk/shop/arch-support-insoles/

They should give you some extra support and stop pronation problems etc.

There is nothing "wrong" with a low arch. It's just a different genetic adaptation. Don't believe the hype that there is something wrong with your foot that needs attention and dollars to fix.

People get fixated on the arch, what you should do is look at the ankle. If you're rolling your ankles, you should fix that. If your feet aren't that curvy, well your feet aren't that curvy.

Considering there are over 100 muscles in your foot, there definitely is something "wrong" with a totally flat foot. A relatively low natural arch is one thing, but fallen arches is a medical condition that can cause complications and can be fixed. And it doesn't take that much attention, and no money at all. Just a few for exercises and learning to use your body correctly.

My flat feet made me walk splayfooted, which then eventually started giving me knee troubles when I began to walk a lot. I find it a little puzzling to read these kind of takes, testimonials for Five Fingers shoes, etc. If nature could fix everything with no intervention we wouldn't need to brush our teeth either.

> If nature could fix everything with no intervention we wouldn't need to brush our teeth either.

Well, I'm not saying nature actually can fix everything, but in case of toothbrushing, it's dependent on your diet. There are peoples knowing nothing of brushing, but they feeding themselves different than we "civilized" people are.

Walking primarily on paved sidewalks isn't really natural either.

Apparently even cavemen did make some effort to clean their teeth (and according to this article, monkeys still do): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2...

Yeah. I have had fallen arches as a kid too, and had issues exacerbated by a bad sprain.

I looked up Youtube videos on how to do it. There is something involving a pencil and a penny to know where to "push" down to the floor without collapsing the arches. Then it is a matter of practicing walking and moving with those feelings until it can be done without thinking. I chose to practice this during martial art practice, hiking, and day-to-day walking.

From a PT my instructor uses: your arches are impacted by weak gluteus minimus muscles. Try to keep your heels under your hip bone. Imagine your feet are straddling a board if that image helps.

Concentrate on carrying your weight on the knife edge and the ball of your foot. Feels like a paradox but do the knife edge exercise for a while and you’ll figure it out. Good exercise to do while waiting in line or shopping with someone who is slow.

Do you have a link to what the "knife edge exercise" is?

Thanks!

Sorry, I'm using unfamiliar terminology from martial arts.

Look at the bottom of your foot. The metatarsal for your pinkie toe is supported by a pad of flesh that it theory can touch the ground almost all the way from your heel to the ball of the foot. With fallen arches the ankle rolls in, the mid foot starts to touch the ground and the strain on the ligaments of the arch and the inside of the ankle are increased.

On the hand, that is the same side you would use to 'karate chop' someone. Ie, using your hand like a knife. The knife edge. Some people use the same term for the foot.

In the 80s they used to put giant insoles into your shoes and it made walking painful until 1) the insole compressed or 2) you twisted your ankle out so you wouldn't put all your weight on the insole. But it turns out it's better for people to manage this on their own and you have shoes like Vans that hardly have an insole at all.

One thing I've found personally but not in the literature, if the shoe is tight around the ball of your foot, you are not going to be able to get your foot posture right. If you need a wider toe box for your feet to be comfortable, solve that problem first before trying to solve the fallen arch problem. Before I threw out my old shoes I would get all sorts of recurring foot pain when I wore the 'uncomfortable' ones.

You can get new shoes, thinner insoles, or lace your shoes differently to get a little more room. I've saved a couple pair of shoes by doing both (insole and relace) to them.

Google “Kelly Starrett collapsed arches”. I don’t work on it enough, but some of his advice has definitely helped me.

Besides collapsed arches, Kelly Starrett has written multiple books on basically moving properly, including this classic hip hinge. I sort of became obsessed with his mobility teachings for a year or so after reading his "Deskbound" book (https://www.mobilitywod.com/deskbound/). Part of the problem is that we sit all day, and sitting in chairs is so ingrained in our culture. At some point we forget how to move properly, and our body begins to adapt to the awkward positions it's forced to sustain for hours on end every day. We develop scar tissue in key areas in order to strengthen and lock our spines/shoulders/hips in place in the bent over sitting position, such that when we do normal human movement tasks our primary muscular movement systems are out of commission due to lack of mobility. So our secondary and tertiary muscular movement systems need to be used instead, like our lower and mid-back muscles for bending over. But these are weaker and were never meant for long term repeated use. So we end up hunching over with terrible back pain all of our lives. The classic hunchback old person who's a full foot shorter than he was 40 years ago that we see here all the time is not a thing in places where people are physically active their whole lives and squat or sit on the floor instead of sit in chairs.

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