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Comment by kelukelugames | Hacker News Reader

Has anyone heard of the third world squat?

It's a joke from weightlifting forums but also has some truthful parts.

https://www.google.com/search?q=third+world+squat&oq=third+w...

It’s not a joke in the weight lifting world, it might have a funny/vaguely offensive name but as far as any serious weight lifter is concerned, if you cant third world squat and hold it for a while you should really get your a low bar back squat form checked before going to appreciable loads.

For those struggling getting in to this position I have two bits of advice:

1. Use a door frame to support yourself initially and really sit back on your heels and hang on the door. It will burn in your adductors so go easy initially. Once you feel comfortable with holding yourself up with the door frame, start to brace and then let go of the door, even for just a second and catch yourself before falling back, to get a feel for balancing yourself. After a few weeks you won’t need the door frame. 2. Stretch your calves, poor dorsiflexion (closing the angle between your shin and the top of your foot) is common and a pain. Everyone should be able to have their toes about 4 inches from a wall and touch the wall with their knee without lifting their heel. Start at one inch and hold it for 30 seconds on each leg once a day, after a week move to 2 inches. I’ve gone from 2 inches to 6 in about a year and has done wonders for my squat.

Finally, when you see people in this squat position in Asia etc you will notice that their spine is rarely flat if they are fully down in the squat. This is generally fine so long as the spine is not loaded. The aim of the deep ass to grass third world squat is not to hold it with a perfectly straight back, the point is to stretch out the positerior chain and, in the cases of people actively using it day to day, to give a comfortable position to work on things low down without forcing their spine to take the weight and job of supporting their bent over action, the aim is to transition that load into the glutes.

Sources: 2 years of extensive physio therapy to recover for a herniated L5S1 disc caused by a lifelong spinal defect exacerbated by mountain bike crashes and heavy dead lifts. If you have back pain seek the advice of a physio therapist with back knowledge before messing about yourself.

Thanks for the tips ... now, one thing I commonly hear when people are talking about proper form for barbell squats, is that you shouldn't move your knee past your foot; while this advice suggests the opposite is required.

So, coming from a relatively ignorant position with regards to physio therapy ... which is it? :P

From the parent:

> when you see people in this squat position in Asia etc you will notice that their spine is rarely flat if they are fully down in the squat. This is generally fine so long as the spine is not loaded.

the exact same thing applies to knee position. You don't want your knees past your toes when loaded, when unloaded it's totally fine.

ahhh, I see the distinction now ... you can get into that super deep squat when you're just chillin'. But if you're squatting at a rack, you would maintain a different form.

Thank you! Hopefully this will help with squats, I can NEVER do them without hurting my back, but I can deadlift 110% bodyweight fine and I've never known why.

Sadly in my country proper form isn't all that common and I've seen so many people do squats with plates under their heels, so finding a knowledgeable expert isn't easy.

A joke ?? The joke's on us!

Remember, ancient Romans were masters of the world, but they drank wine from lead cups, used lead for plumbing etc. Just because a culture is kinda dominant at the moment doesn't meant it can learn nothing from other parts of the world.

I for the life of me cannot do this squat. I've explored all sorts of stretches, yoga, etc. It's the most limiting factor in my weightlifting.

I've gotten to the point where I will hover at the squat rack, spot someone doing an ass to grass, and interrogate them how they got there. Nothing I've learned has worked. I just fall backwards, every time.

I literally learned only a couple months ago that not being able to squat like that is a thing. (And no, I'm not a third worlder either). Incidentally I also learned a while back that I have somewhat hypermobile joints so maybe that's that.

See my comment at the same level as yours, it might help.

Your ankle to knee and knee to hip ratio can make this easier/harder due to centre of gravity position.

The three areas I've identified to work on for myself are ankle mobility, hip flexibility and hamstring flexibility.

I realised that hamstring flexibility impairs my hip mobility, and my hamstrings are good by average standards - I can touch my knuckles on the ground from standing position after warming up.

Are you saying the more flexible your hamstrings are the less mobile your hips are or am I reading that wrong?

My hamstrings are super tight (can't barely get to my ankles when bending over) so any tips on what you did to increase your hamstring flexibility would be welcome too!

No, the opposite, if your hamstrings are tight then when you are trying to flex your hips you're also having to fight against your hamstrings at the same time.

Hamstring stretches are pretty well trodden, yoga or any kicking martial art will have a wealth of material for how to increase your hamstring flexibility.

>I just fall backwards, every time.

Without knowing anything, I'd say check your back angle - it's probably too vertical. If you're falling backwards, point your nipples at the floor.

https://youtu.be/QhVC_AnZYYM?t=427

But really, just find a weightlifting coach and spend some money to get some coaching sessions. They can fix this stuff in minutes.

And if you find the vertical back angle more natural, you should try high bar squatting. With high bar you will also benefit from having your heels slightly raised with a plate under your heel or weightlifting shoes.

When I was a kid I'd play with toys (Tinker Toys, erector sets, Construx, etc.) for hours in a squatting position. My parents thought it was really strange that I could do that for so long.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable doing that now, but getting into the "third world squat" position is easy and natural for me still. I guess I should do that more before I can't.

I oddly ran into a description of something like this from someone that was a prisoner of the Japanese during WW2.

Something about how every Japanese soldier, officers included, would squat while doing stationary tasks.

That is, if i understood the description correctly.

My Japanese aunt does this while gardening, and I can confirm that it's much easier on the back--although I barely have the balance to pull it off myself. Photo of the squat below.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjimlipschu...

Yeah, but I had heard it called "the Asian squat"

I've always heard it called the "slav squat".

I think the least ambiguous name is "wall facing squat". Good for googling more information.

Same here. I'm in Europe - i wonder if the name gets attached to whatever the nearest ethnic minority that practices it is?

It's even got a subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/slavs_squatting/

The "slav squat" isn't heels to ground, though.

After visiting Vietnam I was inspired to start squatting more rather than sitting down or standing around outside.

It was hard at first, your achilles tendons and hamstrings need stretching out from years of disuse, but now I can squat for ages. The key is that you need to stretch out enough that you can squat right down with your feet still flat on the floor and a straight back. It's very comfortable once you get used to it.

I can't do that squat. My hamstrings aren't flexible enough due to too much sitting in the first world.

I can do it, but it's not that comfortable.

My lower back arches severely if I do it, which I regard as not a proper squat.

I couldn't do that at first either, but I learned to do it. The key is stretching exercises and practicing wall facing squats. You can progress in a few ways, like sitting on a low couch and then trying to get up without supporting yourself with your hands. Hint: place knees wide and move your head forward (but not pas your knees).

Of course you wouldn't be able to do it on the first try, that's a fairly "advanced" position for someone not used to that sort of movement. It's like everything else in fitness, you have to (very) slowly work your way up to it.

As a comparison I've been doing karate for 15 months, I'm over 40. I can now kneel down for long enough to do a seza (kneeling bow) but still can't sit back on my feet; it's still painful for me however, not as much as it was.

Mind you, even as a child I was unable to sit cross-legged (without holding my ankles and arching my back) and found floor sitting immensely awkward and uncomfortable.

My impression is that amongst the different "races" we have different ranges of body shapes; I am relatively convinced that this makes some actions and positions more difficult. Maybe squatting is such a movement.

The key to seiza is increasing the range of motion in your ankles. Definitely different people start at different places in terms of that range of motion, but unless you have an injury, you can eventually get there. A couple of quick tips: warm up before you do it -- even going for a quick walk will help. Don't force it. Try to stretch the ankles out a bit, but if it starts to get painful, stop. If you do it too much, you'll get inflammation in the joint, which will just make things take longer. Try to do seiza for short periods during the day. Ideally do it once an hour, but because you might feel self conscious doing it at work, etc, just try to do it whenever. Definitely every day. You can easily go from not being able to do it, to being able to sit seiza through a whole raft of boring speeches from the CEO at a Japanese staff party in only a few months :-)

Interestingly, the squat is a very similar problem, but in the opposite direction -- your ankles need to bend the other way. Lack of range of motion makes it so that you can't position your weight forward enough to stay on your feet. There is also the compounded problem of needing the flexibility in your hips.

Finally, sitting cross legged is also related to ankle range of motion -- but in a kind of diagonal way. To sit comfortably cross legged you have to be able to put the tops of your feet flat on the floor. Of course, this requires flexibility in your glutes as well, but if you don't have the range of motion in your ankles, your feet/knees are always going to hurt. A full lotus position is actually easier on your joints, but requires a lot more flexibility.

Anyway, like I said, there is definitely a range of starting places for flexibility for each person, but no matter where you start you can get there (barring injury, or other kind of unusual mechanical problem). Strangely, I find seiza to be the easiest of the three positions even though I initially found it to be the hardest (after you fix the range of motion problem in the ankles, there isn't really any flexibility you need).

Interesting tips, thanks. I do have ankle stiffness, but can 'point' well (was a swimmer as a youth). We warm up fully before seza at our dojo too. Will have a look at it. Oss.

I didn't know what I was doing was called seiza, but I've been getting better at it thanks to jiujitsu. My knees are the biggest obstacle due to untreated osgood-schlatter during my teens, but I'm working on it. Hopefully I'll be able to seiza and squat comfortably by the end of the year.

there is a yoga position like it. i have always squatted that way, so its easier for me than most. not sure where it came from, but if i am waiting in line, instead of standing there i drop to the 3rd world squat

As a westerner I got pretty used to doing this while I lived in Korea. It's really pretty comfortable once you build up the muscles.

I really wish that it was doable in skiboots :/

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