Comment by povertyworld | Hacker News Reader

Comment by povertyworld | Hacker News Reader

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I usually just skim HN for links, but I this article and had to make an account. I've been making about 15k a year about the last five years. I live in a major metropolitan area. The section I live in is finally getting hit hard and fast with gentrification, and it's terrifying. Right now I can ride a bike to work, but if I'm forced to move somewhere that I have to pay to commute, my job won't even make financial sense anymore. I don't see anyway out.

I did a bachelors in a social science at a cheap non-elite state school, so most people will say I deserve a life of crushing poverty. I suppose that's possible. I did try to make myself relevant to the economy by doing a coding bootcamp, and an associates in design, and put apps into the iOS and Android appstores. Of course I would have rather done a masters, but that is about as realistic as buying a house at this point.

Everyone says they can't find programmers, but I have yet to see one job that I meet the on-paper requirements to even apply to, and I'm willing to relocate anywhere in the country (obviously I can't afford property or a family) Even if I did get an interview I'm sure I won't do well answering trick questions about data structures on a white board anyways.

Other than the constant stress, being impoverished for so long has definitely given me a negative attitude. I know, you guys went through the same thing that time you had to sleep on your buddies couch after you finished your MBA at Stanford and Goldman Sachs didn't have an opening, but for some reason I'm just not handling it as well.

Anyway, I'm just going to keep writing apps and pushing them out to the appstore, and maybe one day one of them will make enough money to poke my head out above the poverty level. See you then.

Finding a job as a junior iOS dev is so hard right now. I would look for an entry-level iOS QA Automation Engineer position, or SDET if they use that title instead, even though I think the positions are usually distinct. You will still be using Xcode and writing Objective C/Swift, even if you're not making contributions to the source itself.

It's extremely difficult to fill those positions because people looking for their first tech job don't want to start off in QA, and they'd rather just be unemployed for months or years instead. There's not enough experienced people to go around if you don't want to overpay significantly to poach them.

They pay very well, easily on par with developer positions in many cases. Average where I live for entry level seems to be over $70k, and I've seen postings for $200k+ for people with experience.

You could probably spend a week or two messing around with UI Automation and XCTest (if you don't already use them) and be more qualified than most of the people applying to those positions with prior QA experience but no prior iOS experience.

Thank you for sharing! I ABSOLUTELY know what it's like to have people believe that you deserve poverty. Sometimes when I get really depressed, I feel that way toward myself. The idea of reduced inherent personal value seeps into everything.

Your point about the difference between being on a couch after a high value MBA vs being on the couch --full stop, end of sentence-- being a total chasm is totally correct.

I think that it is interesting that another poster posited that poverty is truly informed by hopelessness, with the implication that HN readers can't be hopeless. The idea that the concept of poverty is definable only by those far enough away from it to say "That is another group of people than I am in." is problematic in my view.

One option is considering moving. Regardless of your eng. skills if you are able to discuss requirements and communicate well you would be an asset for any smaller consulting company in eastern europe.

And to do that, they would need immediate stable income, or enough capital to live on until they found it. Probably both.

That is the whole point: no one in this situation has either of these things. That is the group of people Sen. Hatch thinks does not deserve financial help.

After reading through (most of) the comments here, I am genuinely curious what we can do as individuals to help. It is pretty clear that the gov isn't too keen on helping (don't want to get into politics - just one look at the budget cuts is enough to prove this point).

So is there anything we can do? Protesting, running for public office etc makes the most sense but I am not built for it. What is the second best thing that an individual with a few dollars and few hours a week to spare do to help?

Contribute or set up non profits to genuinely help people find self sustaining careers.

I’ve for long pondered how I could set up a 100 studio apartment complex with some counselors, training materials, and a supportive non profit. It seems doable.

"100 studio apartment complex"

okay, how would that work? Unless one is really rich, where do we find the money to run such a place?

If such a place exists, I can see myself going there to teach, help organize etc. But I don't know what more I can do, given my own limited resources.

Honestly, I see the biggest problem is that there isn't a clear solution.

We have a culture that is trained against this group of people; trained against helping each other succeed, against promoting others' individual liberty. I don't have a one-size-fits-all solution, and that seems to be the only kind this culture will accept.

I think an important first step is empathy: understand how people feel stuck and why. Understand that the bare necessities are not enough. Understand the heightened stress that comes with this situation: inability to take risks, inability to recover from failed ventures, etc.

The next step is sympathy. Sympathy is closely related to empathy, but there is an important distinction: the difference between comprehension and understanding.

After that, I really don't know. I haven't ever been in a situation where I have the capital to significantly change another person's situation. Because I have never had the perspective, I don't see a solution. That is probably the most frustrating part of the problem: not knowing how someone can help you.

Sure, I could beg for food and rent, but that wouldn't be enough to be independent. In our society, it's difficult to ask for even the bare necessities, let alone ask for things like a car, enough capital to move to the city, out of state, or even out of country.

Some see debt as a solution: Get a student loan and an education, and then get into a better situation. But that assumes that college education is well suited for everyone, which is simply untrue. Loans require judgment by lenders; and if the path that you are most passionate about does not explicitly follow the "normal" routine - school, internship, temp job, career, etc. - those who lend money are likely to deny you your dreams.

The most frustrating thing to me is that because I don't have a perfect solution, the entire subject gets dropped. Solutions are found with effort and progress, not simply stumbled upon.

I get what you are saying and I feel the same way. But can't we at least toss some ideas around and see what comes of it? After all, for those in the US, all it takes from doing okay to bad situation is just one illness, hospital bills can screw someone's life faster than anything else. These things can happen to anyone.

One obviously wouldn't move before securing a position. For a consulting company like that having a native speaker interacting with clients can mean very tangible difference in hourly rate so should not be hard to find a place.

> Everyone says they can't find programmers

It’s endemic, everyone interviewing no one hiring, waiting for unicorns with beards and sock hats. Don’t take it personally.

Ignore the "on paper requirements".

(assuming you haven't already been doing that)

I feel like I always see this when it comes to breaking into mobile apps. Most mobile apps are stupid simple and they simply don't require large teams.

My advice is to pick a niche other than the one everyone and their mom is doing.

Basic mobile apps are simply not a niche.

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