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Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

What an overlong and rambling article. Over the years I've found the big trick in writing is to know what to leave out. This is hard to get right but TFA could really do with some editing, it would probably be a stronger article at 1/4 the size that it is.

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I can't help but feel that if Taleb put a little more effort into fleshing out his arguments I'd enjoy his writing a lot more.

In most of what I've read from him, it always feels like he's more concerned with trying to make the reader feel smug about understanding his writing than actually trying to communicate anything meaningful. In this article, he has an aside where he complains that Agricultural Companies are running a smear campaign against him and are "idiots" and "naive".

He seems to acknowledge that clearly there is some bound on this "minority rule" argument, but doesn't bother to further explore this, and instead goes on and writes as though no bound exists, or if it does, only exists when it benefits his argument.

You took the words from my mouth. While there is a valid and logical point here, his own asides and proselytising style provide avenues to undermine his argument.

For instance, in many Muslim majority or even major minority countries, you do not have a universally halal food industry - most supermarkets are divided into "stuff (probably halal)" halal, and haram.

If he halved the time and volume he puts into making himself/his readers feel clever, he'd be far more convincing.

I know this because it's something I feel into for years, and still do on my first draft of much that I write.

Yeah. I lived in a city that's close to 20 percent Muslim for a while and ate at a few halal-only takeaways, but even there they were very much in the minority. (There was a fairly good place that not only served only 100% halal food, but also closed during the day during Ramadan, but that's because it was a non-chain outlet owned and run by observant Muslims.) Similarly, at least one of the major chains of budget supermarkets around here has loose peanuts and other nuts and just puts a warning in the window expecting anyone with a nut allergy to shop elsewhere. Most of the disabled people I know would probably have more than a few sharp things to say about his argument that they'd automatically be accommodated everywhere too.

This is so true that me and 'jacquesm actually agree on it.

I think there's an Emperor's New Clothes thing happening with Taleb. Apparently, his technical writing is important and impactful. But his popular writing is prolix, repetitive, smug, and sometimes ill-reasoned.

So does that make 2 or 3 things that you and jacquesm agree on now?

I'd hope that we agree on a lot more things than that we disagree.

His technical writing isn't that important or impactful.

This clip, one of the most impressive word salads you'll hear from a public intellectual, will confirm your impression beyond all doubt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H11t5zBd3fU&t=25s

Wow. That's actually an incredible example of how to bullshit your way into fame. Do you think he believes his own nonsense?

>What an overlong and rambling article.

It's not an "article". It's a book chapter.

What goes for articles goes for book chapters. Unless of course you get paid by the word you write. Good writing packs punch.

Well, some of us like our non-fiction to be as long as it takes. We don't just go for the Cliff Notes.

And there are other expectations from a short blog read than from a book.

> Well, some of us like our non-fiction to be as long as it takes.

As long as what takes?

Getting the whole of the author's point across, and not just a TL;DR summary of it.

Which would have merit if it weren't for the fact that Nassim Taleb is constantly peddling very elementary stuff and selling it as a kind of underdog insight that no-one has ever heard before and that the establishment is allegedly hiding from us.

Yes, intolerance can crowd out tolerance, normal distributions can break down, tails matter and so forth. Every time I picked up one of his books I felt like I'm reading a really angry stats 101 book with nine out of ten paragraphs being rants about the academia combined with very questionable nutritional and medical advice

The point is: there is no point. It's a load of nonsense with a sentence or two in there that in isolation might make a point drowning in a sea of contradictions and unrelated statements.

I personally disagree. I found it quite well structured and not that long for what it aimed to convey. I actually believe this long format helped cement the main points in reader's mind.

Not this reader, if only because I lost interest halfway.

I don’t blame you if you did, but often times we discover good gems when we push our boundaries a little further.

That might be the case, but it is surely not a virtue of expository or persuasive writing. Generally we want people to make the point plain.

Taleb has been infatuated with his own writing for a long time, and unfortunately the success of the Black Swan (which was decently edited) seems to have disabused him of the idea that he should cut anything from his rambling essays.

He was on Econtalk last year discussing this topic, it may be easier to digest: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2017/08/nassim_nicholas_1.h...

>> What an overlong and rambling article

Not acquainted with NNT's writings, I see. :)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought so.

> How Europe will eat Halal — Why you don’t have to smoke in the smoking section — Your food choices on the fall of the Saudi king –How to prevent a friend from working too hard –Omar Sharif ‘s conversion — How to make a market collapse

Each of these would make a great article, but mixing in all these stories and discussions together made this borderline incoherent.

I work as an editor for an online technical publication. If an author ever forwarded a draft like this, I'd have either told them to split it into different articles or cut it down to a fraction of the size.

The part about lemonade almost made me quit reading. Why did he describe it that way?

It's Taleb.

He has a compulsion to ramble in order to display his erudition.

Your presumption of the causality is unsubstantiated. It may be correct, but I don’t think you claim more than correlation (unless somewhere he has admitted as such, if which case I’m clearly wrong)

You get style points for humor though. :)

> unless somewhere he has admitted as such

Even then, people make false confessions all the time.

True. I was trying to keep my comment short and to the point. But yes, you are correct.

Does anyone have a favorite reader's-digest-condensed-version of Taleb's books?

I find these to be the best "single post summaries". His books are very challenging to read, but I've always found them rewarding once I've finished/absorbed the material. No pain, no gain I suppose!

Antifragile: https://medium.com/thinking-is-hard/live-like-a-hydra-c02337...

Fooled by Randomness: https://www.fs.blog/2015/02/fooled-by-randomness/

The Bed of Procrustes: https://twitter.com/nntaleb

(I've not read Black Swan so cannot offer any recommendations)

Thank you. He does seem to have some good ideas, but boy is there a lot of self-indulgence to wade through; I tried getting into a couple of his books and gave up.

As Voltaire said: "The secret to being a bore is to tell everything."

It found it very easy to read, but I concede that for leaders in useless HN points it might be hard to grasp.

Ironically, your point would be made just as well had you skipped your first sentence.

no it wouldn't. kicking off talking about your personal experience with writing and the sense of style you've developed isn't better than kicking off by stating your point. imagine this comment with the, "no it wouldn't", removed. kind of starting in the middle, right?

> What an overlong and rambling article.

Welcome to Medium

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