“Always Connected” Windows on ARM machines coming this quarter | Hacker News Reader

“Always Connected” Windows on ARM machines coming this quarter

arstechnica.com

24 pointsrbanffy28 comments

"Always Uncontrollable" might be a better term...

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/com...

The firmware setup shall indicate if Secure Boot is turned on, and if it is operated in Standard or Custom Mode. The firmware setup must provide an option to return from Custom to Standard Mode which restores the factory defaults. On an ARM system, it is forbidden to enable Custom Mode. Only Standard Mode may be enabled

Disabling Secure Boot must not be possible on ARM systems

Edit: this mainly concerns the deeply-embedded "phone home" functionality that Win10 has, which from what I've read is nearly impossible to disable even if you have full administrative access. With a cell radio, firewalling might not be possible either.

... combined with the longstanding security design flaw of integrated processor/baseband chips. I don't know what I dislike more - having a "secure boot" system that is designed to keep me out, or having (what the user considers) the main CPU essentially under the control of a public communication network to let others in - but "luckily" this way we don't have to choose!

The only hope is that someone finds a local vulnerability that can do the same thing as rooting Androids or jailbreaking iDevices, and that may happen if these become popular enough.

...although calling that "Administratoring" just doesn't have the same catchiness to it. ;-)

Breaking Windows, perhaps?

Windows 10S on ARM w/ built-in LTE? Depending on where the price levels off with these things, I think they could realistically carve a solid chunk out of the Android tablet market and the (non-education) Chromebook market

Not without Android apps supported. Or iOS apps.

It will have the Windows Store apps. Apps are commodities for the bulk of the market; users are attached to the functionality.

Or, I would suppose, x86 and x64 apps. That's the main reason I run Windows; the mile-wide app compatibility.

Looks like at least 32bit x86 apps will run. http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-on-arm-it-will-be-mo...

They say x86 apps will run under emulation. I've got no clue how well that will work in practice, though.

Edit: found this ARM compatibility chart in the zdnet article

https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2018/02/19/b2c823f6-76...

And I get that you use x64 Windows for the compatibility, but this isn't supposed to replace that Windows. This is a product for an entirely different market: the market for tablets and netbooks.

Understood. But for me at least I can enjoy the same functionality with my old Toughbook carrying a few extra batteries :-) (Yes I understand not everyone wants to do that.)

Oh, totally. I think these LTE ARM Windows devices are neat; I don't think they're for me, though.

One of Microsoft's big pushes is treating Progressive Web Apps like desktop apps, and listing them in the Store automatically. One of the Microsoft devs showed a screenshot with Google Maps on Twitter.

With Google itself pushing PWAs, Microsoft will finally get Google app support, whether Google likes it or not, and with any luck, this might start to finally erode the app gap that protects the two incumbents.

Haven't we seen this story before that you don't need native apps and all you need is the web? Apple said in 2007 and shortly thereafter Palm, RIM, and Microsoft.

I think we always roll back to that every couple years. The Internet does get more capable over time, so... eventually it may be true? Of course, the difference is UWP is a decent native app option, and Microsoft definitely isn't saying "all" you need is web. But PWAs will definitely fill in the gaps for people who are explicitly tied to specific products or services.

The Android tablet market is already dead. The only people buying Android tablets are people who want a real cheap device for watching videos. Apple has 80% of all tablets costing more than $200.

On the low end in the U.S., Amazon is making a killing with their bastardized not quite "Android" Fire Tablets. Chrome OS based 2-1s are doing pretty well though.

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-android-tablets-future...

Yes, tablet sales have declined while 2-in-1 sales have risen. That's why I qualified that the success of these devices is probably going to be determined by where the price levels off for them.

Intel threatened to sue for its x86 IP violation. The timing is just great for Qualcomm's board who is defending itself from Broadcom's acquisition - release something clearly not going to make a big profit but big enough to be sued by Intel, surely this is going to convince Broadcom to walk away.

Windows S mode only allows appstore, no side loading. How are Windows app developers reacting to the 30% store tax? Are they raising prices for apps or skipping the appstore and ARM altogether?

They are ignoring it. No sane person is going to use windows s.

Other than some dev tools and some games, all my software comes from the MS Store.

It's also the best place to find touch & pen friendly apps that take full advantage of modern Windows 10 features, which are aimed at these devices.

Most people will do fine with Windows 10S.

> all my software comes from the MS Store.

Can you give me some examples? I only know of the netflix app which is even remotely useful.

The most important app for many people is the browser, and afaik firefox/chrome are not available on the store. Makes the OS a complete non-starter IMO.

More expensive than a low end intel notebook but also worse specs except battery most likely with a locked windows only bootloader No x64 emulation x86 emulation but doesnt support opengl beyond 1.1 some DRM systems don't work shell extensions are not supported (affects dropbox, 7zip etc)

Honestly basically everything went wrong. Don't buy this unless you only use windows store apps.

I wonder why none makes decent ARM linux laptops. The market is ripe for disruption after Apple turned off developers with their latest Macbook Pro offerings.

I wish someone would. I’ve been an Apple evangelist for 20 years and I’m now in the awkward position of needing a new laptop for my professional life... and Apple doesn’t make one that I want to purchase. Their Pro line has given up too many features in the name of gimmicky crap (the touch bar was DOA) and the MacBook Air line has given up too many features in the name of ever increasing thinness. It’s beautiful, but I need a machine I can pay my bills with, not stare at longingly—these aren’t mutually exclusive. Up until a couple years ago Apple had made the only laptops I even considered for over a decade.

Now I’m looking at surface books. Blerg.

Wow, paying money to have a large corporation invasively coerce me into agreeing to adopt obligations that only benefit them?

Where do I sign up?

In a significant shift in how Microsoft and partners will be positioning these new devices, the branding "Always Connected" will be used to refer to devices running Windows 10 on ARM.

Wow! That is probably the dumbest branding I've ever seen! "Always connected" sets off an alarm in my head thinking "I cannot use this without internet. This is full of DRM. This device is controlling me rather than the other way around". How is it always connected? What is connected? It's Win10 on ARM.

> Surprisingly, Best Buy—arguably the most important brick-and-mortar computer retailer in the US—isn't included in Qualcomm's list. If this absence is accurate ...

Tsk, sounds like Intel abusing their market dominance again.

The way Arstechnica phrased that made me think that Best Buy was missing from a list of several other brick-and-mortar chains--Microsoft Stores are the only brick-and-mortar stores in the USA that have been announced[1].

"Beginning this calendar quarter, these Always Connected PCs are expected to be available online and hitting store shelves at the following leading retailers:

* U.S.A – Amazon.com, Microsoft Stores"

[1] https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2018/02/21/qualcomm-a...

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