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Comment by toephu2 | Hacker News Reader

On the plus side, I just visited China last month and never felt safer. Before you would wear your backpack on the front of your chest when taking public transportation for fear of thieves. Now, with surveillance everywhere (and random ID checks at subways), you can freely wear your backpack on your back where it belongs without fear of theft.

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There are plenty of western “free countries” with little-to-no street crime. It’s not an either-or situation.

I have been thinking lately about the purpose of crime. Obviously people get robbed and bad things happen, but what would happen in a society without crime? is it possible that crime has a larger purpose?

stagnation. without risk there is no progress.

would you say that without crime humans would be complacent?

It's hard when there are so many laws on the books that it's almost impossible to not break one here and there.

"Crime" is a very loose term. Things like robbery and assault are obvious but there are a lot of laws out there that have no real "victim", or are enforced only when the powers that be have an inclination to.

And non-Western - just look at Japan.

without fear of theft, political organizational, labour bargaining groups, religious freedom, etc, etc.

Ah, unfortunately, there are many theft and violence in quite a few big Western cities.

What is this fear of thieves thing? Is that some sort of line folks are selling, everyone in the west is afraid of .... thieves?

That's the general feeling of the population as well -- as explained by my Chinese friends.

They're okay with the surveillance if it's going to prevent terrorist attacks or even more localised crime.

And most of the citizens couldn't even be bothered about losing access to non-Chinese Internet websites. The Chinese ones are good enough or sometimes even better, tailored to their tastes.

You're not wrong, article looks at it from a Western viewpoint. This surveillance is actually not new. Its a throwback to imperial China, with technology added to it. I can imagine a lot of Chinese prefer it to lawlessness.

It does cost vast amounts of money though. China spends more on surveillance and the police than the entire military budget.

I imagine there are some shades of grey between 'authoritarian surveillance' and 'lawlessness'...

> I can imagine a lot of Chinese prefer it to lawlessness.

But would they prefer even more to have a choice in the matter?

North Korea is even safer, I'm willing to bet. Wanna live there?

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