A Chinese Casino company has set out to take over the U.S. island of Saipan | Hacker News Reader

A Chinese Casino company has set out to take over the U.S. island of Saipan

bloomberg.com

165 pointsbryanrasmussen51 comments

> Torres’s office said that all changes to laws or policies were undertaken “with the intent of achieving economic growth within the boundaries of the law.”

That's a great line. Of course they are changing the law to remain within the boundaries of the law.

States and territories still have to follow federal law and their own constitution, so it's valid to talk about modifying [state] laws within the boundaries of [federal] law.

Ya, but the FBI is really dropping the ball here.

and lobbying is legal, so it checks out.

Glad to see Ed Propst in legislature with a bullshit flag raised over this madness. Saipan's post-Fitial government apparently still reeks of nepotism and corruption, and it's going to take a proverbial shit-ton of Ed and community leaders alike who exemplify genuine selflessness to get that busted rock where it ethically needs to be.

True story: Once upon a time, Ed was a public high school senior English teacher who acknowledged an academically troubled yet "out of place" student by allowing independent calculus study while others were lectured...of course, iff all other assignments were satisfactorily completed ahead of time. Needless to say, the gesture left a meaningful impression, and--to this day--remains the sole high school teacher whose name wasn't forgotten.

I lived in Saipan for 3 years (2006-2009). Literally nothing goes on there - an extremely boring, run down place. No way this casino is generating any kind of real earnings. Locals don't have enough money to gamble, and total visitors to all of NMI(which also includes other islands like Tinian and Rota) per year is 500k - twice that many people visit Las Vegas every week.

The money might be actually be earned elsewhere, but declared to be earned here to avoid Chinese scrutiny / reporting / tax laws.

It is obvious from the article that this is merely a money laundering operation. The feds don't care because it is Chinese money being laundered into the USA and out. The Chinese don't care because it is the people in power (or close to people in power) whose money is usually being laundered.

This is far more likely.

Most people don't even know Saipan exists, much less what goes on there. You'll draw less scrutiny in a middle of nowhere island vs Las Vegas.

Yeah, isn't Saipan in the middle of nowhere? And its not a famous tourist destination like Tahiti.

Saipan used to be very popular with Japanese tourists, because it's only about a 4-hour flight from Tokyo. Then the Japanese economic bubble burst and that dried up.

FWIW, I visited once in 1998, when Japanese tourism was trailing off but hadn't completely collapsed yet, so flights & hotels were cheap. It was a bizarre but largely uninspiring combo of the worst of strip-mall America (McDonaldses, K-Marts) with mass tourism (huge, slowly decaying hotels and beachside hucksters). The snorkeling was OK and the beaches were pretty, but dotted with rusting WW2 tanks...

My guess is that this is not truly about "corruption" and that the US government is mostly happy about this arrangement.

Consider these possible upsides from the US perspective:

* The US can use the whole operation as a bargaining chip with China's governing party, which probably finds the operation irritating, given their policy of currency controls.

* US intelligence gatherers may be able to glean some info about who the wealthy are in China and what they want to do with their money.

* US intelligence gatherers may be able to strike up useful relationships with certain wealthy/elite/influential people in China.

* The operation itself may well be helping to pay the US costs for occupying such a remote island.

Also the trade deficit issue. If China's ultra-rich are exporting billions of dollars of capital a year out of China, then it helps balance the trade deficit and means more capital in the rest of the world and probably mostly the USA.

It doesn't balance the trade deficit at all. It does improve the current account balance but that's not necessarily a good thing for US exports.

It then goes into housing bubbles...which may or may not be in your interest depending if you own a home or not.

Junklets as a means to convert a large amount of Yuan to USD just begs the question: How do Junklets convert the large amount of Yuan they pull to the USD they give as credit to their big spenders?

The credit is likely extended in the form of chips, and then the chips are cashed in at the casino for USD.

The question is, where does the junket - or the casino, since they work together - get the USD when its only income from this activity is the debts it collects in CNY.

That's a side of the story that isn't explained here. However it's not a mystery who would want to be on the other side of that transaction. After all, an enormous part of the Chinese economy is international businesses who sell Chinese goods for dollars but need to pay their Chinese suppliers or workers in renmimbi.

Banks, there's nothing unusual about a casino withdrawing large amounts of USD.

Exactly this. It seems likely this is a giant money laundering and exfiltration scheme that both the US and China would nominally like to stop. That they don't is problematic.

It's not that easy. Every step of it has a legitimate use and it's only when combined that problems are caused. Then, I don't see what reason the US would have to want it to stop, more USD in Chinese hands isn't a bad thing. China wouldn't like it, but as it's taking place in Macau or now Saipan there are jurisdictional issues.

Wonder if the headline was meant to stoke the fires shortly after the Maldives find themselves with the Chinese Navy in their waters and I assume India freaking out. The timing is uncanny.

Title is a little-clickbaity. "Conquering" seems a bit much and the part of America, in this case, is this remote island.

You should read about how the US acquired its Pacific teritories. Interesting stuff. I love all those colonialist skeletons in the closet stories. This is nothing new, sadly.

I'm not sure what the point of this article is? Am I supposed to be enraged that there exists a job-site that is cutting every corner, a casino is being used for money laundering by the Chinese elite and politicians are probably making money in unethical ways as a result?

>several businesses offer Asian tourists access to American eccentricities, like assault rifles. “Experience the thrill of firing a real gun,” reads an advertisement for a local shooting range. “In Saipan, it’s legal and is guaranteed by the United States Constitutions 3rd Amendment.”

Is the typo in the sign or from the author? I hope it's the sign but stuff like this[1] doesn't come from nowhere

[1] https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/journalists-guide...

It’s an interesting piece of real journalism, the kind that is increasingly rare. So many shady things are going on all at once, it is easy to be confused about what to be mad about, but that doesn’t make the story less interesting.

As for the 3rd amendment, probably a typo from the source that was reported straight through for comedic effect.

A similar story is playing out in Vancouver and reported on in the newspapers fairly regularly, however law enforcement seem strangely reluctant to investigate, and the Canada Revenue Agency claims they don't have sufficient capability to perform audits on any of the people involved. As a result, no charges have been laid, therefore there is no "proof" ("anecdotes aren't data"), so it seems to generally be considered fake news by most people.

What's that ancient Chinese saying? May you live in interesting times?

> Am I supposed to be enraged that there exists a job-site that is cutting every corner, a casino is being used for money laundering by the Chinese elite and politicians are probably making money in unethical ways as a result?

Um... yes? Do you think killing workers, money laundering and corruption are OK?

This is America, dangit.

The Northern Marianas need another privately-operated, for-profit prison built ASAP. We gotta throw those corrupt casino folks in it and replace them with slightly less corrupt folks from the civic-industrial complex. Those kickbacks and hush money payments need to be going to judges and prosecutors instead of casino regulators.~

It is not okay, but the thing about corruption is that it doesn't care what decent people think of it, until they start waving torches and pitchforks around.

> Do you think ... money laundering ... [is] OK?

Your other two items are clearly not okay, but doing what you want with money you earned is perfectly fine.

I have yet to hear a legitimate argument for why "money laundering" is wrong. Laws already exist to criminalize the illegal acts committed to acquire money - what, precisely, is the rationale for criminalizing the voluntary obfuscation of money, however earned?

> I have yet to hear a legitimate argument for why "money laundering" is wrong.

Money laundering is wrong for the same reason that accessory after the fact, obstruction of justice, spoliation of evidence, misprision of felony, and related offenses relating to after-the-fact concealment of crime are wrong.

China restricts money flowing out so laundering that cash may not have been tied to an actual crime.

It usually is gray money though, earned by skimming huge capital works projects, bribes, or whatever. For non-party-nobles who earn money via our jobs, the $50k exchange limit is probably enough for anything you would need to do.

The whole point to get the money out of china is as insurance if Xi decides to crack down on that official for corruption (they are mostly all guilty of it, so all they have to do is fall out of favor), then all they have to do is get out of the country and lead the good life.

Is facilitating committing a crime somewhere else better?

That's like saying, "I have yet to hear a legitimate argument for why burying a body is wrong." Well, yes, putting a dead body in the ground is not by itself wrong. But step back a tiny bit and think about why that might raise some flags.

Seriously? Money that is gained criminally is not in any way "earned."

It has nothing to do with legally earned money, please don't be disingenuous.

It's the same concept as stealing a car and swapping VIN plates to conceal the theft. If the money was obtained legally, there is no reason to launder it. Laundering money is literally taking stolen currency and converting it into a form that is not traceable back to the theft, in order to hide the theft from the authorities.

The business doing the laundering is enabling the crime by providing a way to make the money useful

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