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Comment by odammit | Hacker News Reader

“Punctuality obsessed” or person that takes the effort to make time to hang out with a friend, offered them the respect of showing up on time just to have their time wasted by you not showing up on time.

If you do it all the time, you’re inconsiderate.

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Speaking personally, I'm frequently running late for events, but it has nothing to do with being inconsiderate, as I tend to be reasonably considerate in other ways. It's also a family trait, which is something we joke about, and my family includes some of the most considerate people I've ever met.

I get that waiting around doing nothing is annoying, but it doesn't have to be that way. For example, if I'm meeting up with some friends to go out, I'd much rather meet them in a pub rather than meet them at a bus or train station. That way their evening can start without me.

I'd also happily live somewhere with other people that don't put a high value on punctuality. As an example, I've heard in Costa Rica they have cultural trait of running on "tico time". I've only ever met a couple of people from Costa Rica before, so I can't say how common this is, but what I can say is that I'd not be offended by it, and I'd hope it was something we would all be a bit more laid back about than where I currently live.

I lived in Roatan and there is a notion of “island time” you hear flying out of every lazy white mouth who is trying to sound hyper-local, but most people I met that grew up there, that work there and make plans with friends there - they tend to be pretty respectfully on-time.

Nice stereotype though!

> "Nice stereotype though!"

If you don't like the example I gave, you can have another example, looking at Ikaria:

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20171116-the-greek-island-wi...

Quoting the article (note this was said by a Greek person, not an expat):

"Retired doctor Christodoulos Xenakis has another theory about how Ikarians avoid unnecessary anxiety. We met briefly during my first hour on the island and we had agreed to meet again, though tracking him down wasn’t easy.

“No-one really sets appointments here,” he shrugged when I greeted the 81 year old – who is considered a young man by Ikaria standards – a few days later in the village. Time is an important part of life on Ikaria, Xenakis explained, but not the way most people think. “It’s more like ‘see you in the morning, afternoon or evening’. We don’t stress.”"

Sounds like he always eats his food cold when he shows up at dinner parties.

But then why set a meeting time? Tell them you'll meet them in the evening maybe, but no promises. Then everyone has the same expectation.

It just seems stupid to make an agreement that you know you won't keep.

> "But then why set a meeting time? Tell them you'll meet them in the evening maybe, but no promises. Then everyone has the same expectation."

If people accepted that answer, that'd be fine, but by and large they don't/won't.

> "It just seems stupid to make an agreement that you know you won't keep."

You don't always know ahead of time. If you arrange to meet at 7pm and arrive at 7:05pm, predicting that far in advance is quite tricky. Perhaps you fully intended to be on time, but underestimated some part of the journey getting there.

My family are chronically late for things, and yet I manage to be on time. By saying that you should meet at a pub/are vefore you get a train, you’re saying “why don’t you all meet an hour earlier than we need to so I can be late”. Sure sometimes it’s fine, but having to accommodate one person in a group being chronically late is selfish on their part.

> "having to accommodate one person in a group being chronically late is selfish on their part"

That's not what's happening. If I'm running late I'm supposedly missing out too, by missing out on spending time with friends. What part of that is selfish? If I arrange to meet somewhere where they can start enjoying their evening, the only person that misses out is me.

Have you considered that we may be incapable, rather than inconsiderate? Especially if it's "all the time"?

Do you think that those of us without adequate executive function are on time for things we deem truly important? If you do, then you might want to challenge that notion, and see if that affects your viewpoint.

Do you miss a lot of flights?

Yes.

I'll quote what I wrote in a reply further below:

> I've missed at least 8 flights in the past decade, have seen only the last 80-90% of many of the films I watched in the cinema, have had to stand in the back for the first act of many stage productions, etc. Seeing me walk, rather than run, through train stations and airports is a rare sight. I don't recall a single multi-day bushwalk I've been on, where I pitched my tent before sunset, or even within 2 hours after it.

I feel your pain. A close relative has the same problem; she's only getting somewhat better now at 55+ years old. She's one of the most selfless people I know; she simply has a real problem managing her time. And that inability harms herself way more than others.

You should get a modern phone with a calendar and alerts.

Are you also incapable of telling people that you won't be on time? You seem to articulate it fine here.

If you tell me that you'll pick me up at 5pm, but show up at 7pm... I'll be upset most likely. But if you tell me that you'll pick me up at 5pm, but will probably be late, maybe even hours late... I'll get it... And will adjust accordingly (most likely I'll get a ride with someone else if at all time critical).

Whatever time estimate I give you, I will usually be later than that. Telling you I might be hours late for a 5pm meeting will probably end in me arriving at 9pm.

That's why I find it best to have a reasonable time to aim for, and the people that know me know they will need to be able to accommodate my late arrival. And every once in a while, I might even be on time, though I do consider "5 minutes late" as "on time".

Yes, the people that know me are nice and patient people. That's probably a major reason why I know them in the first place.

Simply tell your friends “I’m afraid I can’t commit to meeting you at any time due to my inadequate executive function”. It should help them change their viewpoint.

I pretty much do. People can be very accommodating when they understand it isn't personal.

There's a lot of better things to say, for instance:

"How about I meet you at your place? I often run late and would rather you weren't sitting there waiting for me"

Or you could pick me up at my work; I'll already have to be dressed and out of the house since I'm at work.

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