Tesla Model S outsells German luxury flagships in Europe
europe.autonews.com
europe.autonews.com
Sales for 2017:
Tesla Model S: < 20K BMW 5 series: 109K MB E-class: 125K
Note that the EU tax situation for vehicles is very complicated and can cause the price to change so much that a Tesla model S can be much cheaper, about equal or more expensive to a BMW 5 series or E class depending on the country you are looking at.
Even from a layman’s perspective... have these people driven a 7 series? They’re more quiet highway cruising than the Model S I test drove... until you feel like making them noisy, then you can floor it and hear a V12 roar to life... if that’s your thing.
The Model S is more like a 5 series E Class in quality, strange that it gets slotted with cars solely on price
The last Model S I drove in was more like a Camry on some of the interior detailing.
Push down on the dash of a Tesla, listen to the creaking of flexing plastic. Do the same in a mid/high range Audi/MB/BMW.
Look at the gaps in trim detail on the door liner.
Give the center console a wiggle.
It's not -bad-, but it's not as polished, high quality, as some would like to believe.
I couldn’t stomach paying S Class money for the thing and went with a Volt, which is at least priced to match its trim (And it was a lot better than I expected when well optioned)
Having a huge 60kwh battery is great and all, but if I only use it 10% of the time, why would I want to pay another $10k for it? Better to just use gas occasionally. Love my Volt.
But they're confusing to people and also GM doesn't market either of these cars.
I don't think Canada has an EV sales requirement yet.
Ontario has a high subsidy.
To their credit, GM sells in all the provinces regardless. Once QC enacted California-style minimums, Ford stopped selling EVs in other provinces and allocated their inventory only to QC. That's a pretty dick move.
All of those vehicles have similar technology to the Tesla, if not more: road sign comprehension, active steering, driving assistance (autonomy), side collision avoidance, auto parking, online maps.
And when your market segmentation is "high end", "luxury" as it is here, why _wouldn't_ interior decoration, quality and features be considered?
(1) Actually a hugely refined and seriously complex process involving dozens of companies which have been doing this for decades, at least for the German ones.
I can imagine lots of cars:
One where the insides are junk, but they put all their effort into making the surface of the interior perfect
One where the interior is total crap, but they obsessed over the drivetrain until everything purred like a kitten
One where the whole thing is junk
One where every detail was obsessed over.
... which of these categories are you saying doesn't exist? Both of the first two?
Hence it is very important that manufacturers focus on the in car experience more so than exterior. And in this respect Tesla is pathetic. There really isn't a better word to describe how Tesla can offer cheap-Korean interior quality at the prices they do.
I'm not supposed to disagree with your opinion that "the singular difference in many respects is the lack of ICE"?
I mean, I've always been aware that many people don't like Tesla's interiors, and don't place much value in the things that Tesla owners place value in. Heck, I'm sure a majority of people don't agree with my opinions.
But I wasn't aware until now that my opinion was invalid.
If you'd like to know what I, personally, find awesome about Model S, it's the quiet straight-line acceleration, the modernistic interior design, and that it doesn't burn dinosaur juice. (I know people dispute all of these, but those are my personal favorites.)
Both of these things certainly could be done by other car companies.
Opinions and value systems obviously differ. I've been a professional driver on and off for years and years, and I honestly couldn't care less about the finish of the dashboard, as long as it performs whatever it's supposed to perform.
My personal only reason, apart from the money, which I haven't got, for not wanting a Tesla (or any other modern high-end car, really) would be all the idiotic phoning home stuff.
The electric versus dead dinasaur question is settled beyond dispute. Combustion is twentieth century, period.
Yes. Yes that is a controversial opinion, especially when combined with the phrasing you continue to choose. And the fact that you're this hostile but then admit you don't own one and can't afford to own one, yet you look down your nose at anyone who doesn't own one.
As for the supposed hostility, I'll let other judge between you and me.
With that said, I do think it's interesting that the Model S has S class pricing and is outselling the S class despite being decidedly much less luxurious.
I'd say many people spending upwards of $85k-$100k+ on a car don't just want luxury -- they want social status. And right now a brand new upgraded Model S is more attention-grabbing than a Mercedes S class.
If you want complete luxury: S-Class, A7/A8, or 7-Series are going to be decidedly better in every way, at a similar price bracket. To be honest, Tesla doesn't even compete in this category.
If you want the status symbol: Maybe Tesla is the best. You'd also probably be cross-shopping a Panamera or maybe an XJ.
If you want performance: The best will be an E63S, RS5 (kind of a different category), or M5. A P100D is stupidly fast off the line, but most enthusiasts don't put it in the same class as high-end german performance cars due to driving dynamics and the price. It gets an honorable mention.
If you want tech: Tesla, Audi, or the Cadillac CT6. Tesla wins on automated driving, but Cadillac isn't far behind at all. Audi has some of that, but their interior tech is easily on-par with Tesla when you option it out.
If you want all of them: You'll need to go upmarket. The RS7 would qualify, especially the refreshed 2019 model, but really you'll have to enter "optioned out Porsche" territory ($150k+) and even then you'll make sacrifices in the tech department.
There are a few generalities you can make, though: First, BMW isn't as competitive as they used to be. MB and Audi have recently started outpacing them in most categories. Second, Tesla definitely isn't competitive at its price bracket without tax incentives, unless all you care about is how other people perceive you, which can't really be quantified like the other categories.
We'll see if that trend continues in 2018, there have been some substantial changes in the taxes regarding electrical cars in NL, not sure about Norway.
For realsies? Or is it just a soundtrack?
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/faking-it-engine-sound...
I can totally see how this will eventually play out the way you describe it though, and worse, maybe they'll end up putting speakers on the outside as well.
A 7 series might be insulated enough that the models that come with V6 and V8s need some artificial help, but the V12 is loud enough that any generated sounds are just overkill, it’s a very throaty engine... if you want it to be
It starts off like it’s talking about fake sounds, then goes into differentiating. The comment the person linking made sounds like they were slightly mislead by that.
No, that is not strange at all.
It is less quality that makes it strange than dimensions of the vehicles. Tesla is not the length of an S Class or 7 series. It is the length of an E Class or 5 series.
5 series, E Class, Model S are ~ 195 inches long
7 series and S Class are ~206 inches long.
Price is a far more significant from of differentiation than random specs. The average person buying a Honda Civic can't afford a Model S, but the average person buying a Model S can afford to buy an S Class. People talk about market segments because they are meaningfully different.
That said, taxes, maintenance, and fuel differences do make a Model S cheaper to own and operate. So they arguably have significantly different prices.
I think what we're both saying is that the big gas-engine luxury car segment is different from whatever new segment the Tesla Model S has created.
But the point is that the new segment is taking buyers from the old.
Have you seen a good direct comparison?
I'm sure that the cars that BMW cranked out in its third year of production weren't the same as today's BMW's, either.
When Tesla's been doing this for a decade, then I'll hold their feet a little closer to the fire. For right now, it's a company learning how to build cars; and from that perspective, it seems to be doing a pretty good job.
Also Tesla has, in fact, been producing vehicles for a decade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster_(2008)
If you prefer not to count the Roadster as they used the Lotus gliders, the Model S has been out for 6 years as of this summer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
Tesla does not have many of the “luxuries” that BMW has, but it has other benefits like better technology and 0 emissions. The news is that faced with that choice, many consumers are choosing Tesla over a 7 series and it’s quiet cabin.
What they really appreciate on a day to day basis is quiet cruising, yet the 7 series out does it in that department.
I'm totally OK with you having different preferences from me. I've met other people who think like you do, and we've had fine conversations about our personal preferences. But you're pretty much ignoring what I have to say, replacing it with your favorite preferences.
I think you're just so set in the idea that an EV must be quieter than ICE vehicle because people who bought one want a quiet car and you’re either willing to shift goalposts to do that or you’ve been talking past me. After all:
>I'm mainly concerned with people outside the car.
the conversation has been about interior noise this up til now.
And before when I mentioned flooring it, you responded, I responded saying both are fairly loud when floored, then you then turned around and said you weren’t talking about foooring it...
There’s not much of a conversation to be had if any time I bring up a point you try and write it off by changing the context of it, then turn around and accuse me of ignoring what you’re saying...
And for the record the noise in the Model S noise isn’t just tire noise, there’s the whine of the motors straining and the excessive-for-it’s-price-bracket wind noise
And I was flooring it, just not to 60. Which is what I said.
I live in downtown Palo Alto, and I hear Model S flooring it from the outside and inside on a regular basis. It's subtle compared to ICE cars.
Looks like we'll both end up mystified as to what the other is saying. So be it.
But to get back to my original point: If you talk to Tesla owners, they're into flooring it and not making a roar. Not a wind roar, not a small engine wine, but a roar of a gas engine causing breakthrough noise.
Pretty please
The BMW 5 appears to be significantly cheaper. You reference that and claim an exception based on taxes but don't provide any actual information to clarify it.
Besides that, Tesla is growing rapidly, BMW is not growing at all. In the US, which is a massive market for BMW, they're contracting. So when it's 30k S vehicles in Europe next year, it's just going to hurt that much more if you're BMW. The car market in the US and Europe is not meaningfully expanding, every Tesla sold is coming directly out of the pocket of BMW, Mercedes, et al.
The ~120,000 Teslas that get sold in 2018 are coming directly at the expense of the German automakers.
The average price doesn't matter. The actual price matters and this differs from country to country to such an extent that it will be a large factor in the decision making process. For 2017 NL and Norway for instance were big sellers for Tesla because of huge tax breaks on purchase and subsequent ownership taxes.
> The BMW 5 appears to be significantly cheaper.
In NL they start at 56K Euros, the Tesla's at 90K+, but the tax situation is so convoluted that you can't even compare the two at that price point. Which is why you'll see plenty of Tesla's in lease fleets because the monthly figures on that very expensive car compare favorable with the 5 series.
> Besides that, Tesla is growing rapidly, BMW is not growing at all.
Yes, this is usually the case when companies start out. BMW is just over a century old, if they would be growing at the rate of Tesla they'd be the only manufacturer by now. Just like any new company Tesla will - hopefully - continue to grow for quite a few years but it is my expectation that that growth will plateau at some point in the next couple of years.
> In the US, which is a massive market for BMW, they're contracting.
See above for comparison between mature market players and start-ups. This is expected, there is a new equilibrium to be found and all existing market players will lose some market to a newcomer operating in their segment.
If that would not happen it would indicate that the market as a whole is growing which is not the main driver here.
> So when it's 30k S vehicles in Europe next year, it's just going to hurt that much more if you're BMW.
No, you have to divide that over all the competing vehicle brands to figure out how much it affects them. And even though the 30K vehicles sold is impressive it's for now not at the level that the likes of BMW and MB are having end-times nightmares.
> The car market in the US and Europe is not meaningfully expanding, every Tesla sold is coming directly out of the pocket of BMW, Mercedes, et al.
Exactly. But until those numbers reach 100's of thousands of vehicles sold Tesla will be the underdog, and by that point the likes of BMW and MB (and possibly VW) will have a competing product. There is no way that Tesla will be able to absorb the whole car industry without the competition putting up a stiff fight, the way it is playing out right now is that Tesla is taking all the risks and laying the groundwork for electric car acceptance and infrastructure issues. It's a real world example of the innovators dilemma at work and it remains to be seen if the incumbents wake up in time to win that fight.
> The ~120,000 Teslas that get sold in 2018 are coming directly at the expense of the German automakers.
No, they are coming at the expense of all automakers, maybe with a larger chunk coming out of the German automakers but that's not something that you can say without more proof than I have available right now, what I do know is that both the E class and the 5 series set records in the US in 2017, with both cars individually growing in sales as much as the total number of sales for the Model S.
It's a product for early adopters. S class Benz products are not that.
My presence as a customer in this imagined luxury car price point segment is temporary. When it comes time to replace this Model S, I'm counting on several mass-market EV brands competing with each other.
If things keep going the the way they are now, Tesla will have a loyalty advantage in my next purchase choice. But that loyalty advantage probably won't be worth more than a few kilobucks.
The Model S is definitely not a plutocratmobile. I really like it. I'm a total fanboy. But there's road noise, and the front seat doors aren't plutocrat-grade comfortable, and the radio, and , and , and. The market analysts putting it in the plutocrat segment based only on price are making a mistake.
(Yeah, I know, first world problems. But I'm a proud early adopter. I also had a first-generation Honda Insight hybrid.)
It'll be interesting to see if they try to move down to compete with the BMW 5 category over time. Or whether they attempt to push quality higher, raise prices and fully compete with the next tier up.
The Model 3 is very clearly going to stay focused on competing with the BMW 3 (and equivalent from Mercedes et al.) over time.
Perhaps Musk will push a new sedan into the mix eventually to more properly align with how the BMW 3, 5, 7 series is set up.
The German KBA (Kraftfahrtbundesamt, similar to the DOT in the USA) classifies the Model S as Oberklasse, the same class like BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class.
Coming from a BMW 7 series and now driving a Model S myself, I sure have the feeling that the Model S carries a prestige comparable or higher to that of the 7er.
If you asked a 5 year old to play "which one of these is not like they other" they'd quickly zero in on the Tesla models very quickly because they don't look like luxury vehicles. That's not to say that the Tesla models aren't very nice cars, they're just not opulent. The Tesla models cost as much as they do because of the technology under the covers. The other cars in the Oberklasse segment aren't technologically expensive, they're pretty bog standard high performance vehicles slathered in expensive and exotic materials and refinements.
I couldn't read the word "Tesla" and only saw an unfamiliar car with a logo I hadn't seen before.
My thoughts were "what strange Chinese crap trying to look like a big car is this?". Really.
I know, sounds stupid. I was able to read "Tesla" shortly thereafter and certainly felt stupid, not recognizing the car or the logo after reading so much about Tesla.
My opinion has slightly changed, in the meantime, I don't see them anymore and think of "cheap" and "wannabe", but I suspect that my initial feeling was the true one and I'm now subconsciously factoring in that I know it is a Tesla.
Still, they badly need an experienced "conventional" designer if they see themselves as one of the luxury Mercedes or BMW cars. But I suspect they don't see themselves like that and actively try to force a new design language into the market and create a new niche.
When you first see the Hyundai Genesis line of cars you think it's some sort of high end fine European luxury vehicle because they copied the design language of luxury brands. However when you realize they're Hyundais you immediately think "oh garbage".
When Toyota first starting making the Lexus line they look like glossy versions of their Toyota counterparts and it took many years for them to develop a distinctive design aesthetic. Honda had similar issues with the Acura line in the US and I would argue they still do because the Acura line doesn't exist in other markets so those vehicles are branded as Honda. The Honda Odyssey has always looked more like an Acura to me.
Tesla to their credit didn't try to cash in the prestige of another brand by copying their design language. Tesla's design language is a blank slate in our mind so when we see it we don't know what to expect. We try to associate it with what we know, in this case you thought Chinese crap.
Here's a good article on the Century and the kind of luxury it represents:
http://autoweek.com/article/tokyo-motor-show/no-modern-luxur...
Model S is basically a V1 car. Audi has made a dozen generations of vehicles, each time getting another chance to refine the design.
The Model 3 is a big leap forward in fit and finish, albeit in a simpler design, without "premium" flourishes.
The next gen Model S will be Tesla's first real foray into designing a serious premium interior on purpose, with experience. It'll be interesting to see how it does.
I personally find it quite attractive, it is a crowd pleasing design, but as a first model it could have used some sort of design extravagance. Something that scream "there is a Tesla 5 car down" even if you have just seen the rear corner of the boot or a light. Missed quite a few opportunities to tell people to look at the Tesla because, well, I didn't see it myself.
Edit: I don’t mean it looks like an Audi (obviously I hope) I mean it’s conservative design language similar to Audi.
It's not that it doesn't look premium, it's that it doesn't look luxury. What about a Tesla makes it look more expensive than an Honda Accord or Mazda 6?
When I look at a Tesla it very much reminds me of Mazda. It looks like it's built for performance.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-video-revie...
Edit: Sorry that was a Model 3, here’s the S
https://insideevs.com/teardown-expert-test-drives-tesla-mode...
Does anyone have any other Munro teardowns? Or perhaps any other independent source reconfirming his view?
Does biased just mean “I don’t like it!” these days?
I mean, having Detroit car makers, notorious for bad build quality, and critique Tesla reeks of people like Steve Ballmer criticizing Apple, or the ULA folks running critics of SpaceX.
Biased means I this case, a tear down free of context. What’s the defect rate of Detroit built cars of similar class and age? How many recalls have they endured?
I’m starting to get a sense of where the bias really lies, thanks.
Of course, that doesn't mean you are not right to feel prestige with a Tesla, and that's something important with luxury in general: what's luxury to someone can be absolute garbage to someone else. And quite often, premium products can be of higher quality than luxury products (luxury is often tied to quality, but most importantly brand history, hand-crafted parts, access to some social status, etc).
The quality of the vehicle (materials, UX, customer service and so on) doesn't match up with most recent BMW 7 and Mercedes S Klasse. It's on par with older ones, but not with the current ones.
The guidelines for the Fahrzeugsegment by the Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt are really kind of crap. If you gave different people the Abgrenzungskriterien to classify all the cars, you'd end up with different results unless because there's an unspoken weight to the criteria.
If I had to hazard a guess, probably 90% of the weight is on base price and another 9% is on "is this vehicle expensive because it's a Camper or Work Truck".
Seems like if the comparison were flipped, all the Tesla haters would be whining about it being compared to cheaper cars...
EDIT: Foolishly assumed US prices would roughly translate across markets. I had no idea there was such a large differential in other markets. Consider my comment retracted.
There are tons of reasons to get a Tesla in Norway at least (or a leaf/e-golf).
I tried a Tesla S but it was rattling in all the joins and windows and felt like a very poor build so I passed, but I hope some of the others pick up the slack soon like Audi or Mercedes.
By 2025 it will not be legal to sell new petrol or diesel cars anymore[1] here, but I actually want an electric car that goes 500 km. I just want a well built one.
[1] https://www.tu.no/artikler/fossilbilene-skal-fases-ut-i-2025...
And by then, all of the perks you mention, like free parking, free ferries, driving in bus lanes, free road tax, they will all be gone even for electric cars.
Jeremy Clarkson predicted this whole shitshow perfectly way back when he said he was going to start a car company that put 9V batteries in Hummers and sold them as hybrids. It's pretty infuriating from an environmental perspective though.
On a constructive note, have you considered the new Mercedes or BMW plug-ins, like the C350e or the 530e? Realistically you'll get 30 km electric range on one charge, but for many that's enough (or close) for day-to-day driving. By 2025, that's probably doubled (or more). Then you just drive on petrol for your longer trips.
So the Tesla sits pretty right in the middle of the two. One could argue that it doesn’t seem fair to compare the sales figure of a €70k car against those of a € 90k car.
I think it's quite hard to consider 69k€ to be the base price. They placed it at €69k to get subsidies for electric cars, which are only granted up to a sales price of €70k.
If you want to customize anything (different color, different interior), you have to get the "Comfort package" @ €13k. You also have to get the "comfort package" if you want basic stuff like navigation or radio.
€82k seems to be the fairer price point, especially considering this was the regular base model price until the government started providing the subsidies :)
Just as a comparison: In Januar 2018, Tesla had 63 newly registered cars in Germany (all models) (1). The BMW 7 series alone had 364. (2) BMW all models 20 759 (1)
(1) https://www.kba.de/SharedDocs/Publikationen/DE/Statistik/Fah...
(2) https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahrzeuge/Neuzulassungen/Mon...
In Germany a Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse base price (the S-350) is 85.590 €.
Neither car is $50,000 or $80,000 in the markets the article is talking about, so I'm a bit confused by what your post is referring to.
Hardly the true base price, considering you have to get the "Comfort Package" @ 13k if you want to customize anything or want to get basic stuff like navigation or radio.
(true) luxury brands have a love/hate relationship with "high sales", because every sale that is made lowers the prestige of the brand (to quote Porsche's CEO, "I worry when I see two of my cars in the same street").
Knowing that, comparing a company that benefits from selling more with companies that benefit from maintaining prestige is absurd.
It's in the same price-class as S-class/7-series, but since operating costs are lower it still attracts E-class/7-series customers.
It's nearer to the high end classes when it comes to tech-factor and autonomy. It's also arguably in a class of its own when it comes to software and OTA updates.
It's in a class of its own when it comes to engine performance, since BMW and Mercedes don't have EVs in that segment. EVs have very different performance characteristics, but Tesla is arguably better in many ways.
It's in the E-class/5-Series segment in fit and finish and various luxury features.
I think the Model S is attracting S-class/7-series customers, without a doubt. I'm sure some of those would sacrifice fit and finish for the unique experience that the Model S delivers. But it doesn't attract everyone in that market. That goes without saying.
The "DeLorean" was far behind this when they folded and that attempt got further than any before since the 1930s, and they weren't really a US manufacturer.
The "Tucker" didn't come anywhere near the Telsa, and that's probably right behind the DeLorean on the timeline.
And even more important is how they are doing it. They're not just building a new car, they're using an entirely different kind of powertrain and drivetrain. This too has been tried before, but again no startup has ever made it this far or advanced the tech used so dramatically.
I don't build custom cars anymore but I know what it takes from concept to production and I'm not just impressed with what they've done, I am astonished with how much they've done.
At this point, no matter what happens to Tesla, they have changed the industry forever.
http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/tesla/tesla-... 2017: 16.026, 2016: 11.564: 2015: 15.169
http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/Mercedes-Ben... 2017: 14.757, 2016: 14.967, 2015: 16.583
http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/mercedes-ben... 2017: 127.638, 2016: 99.494, 2015: 84.771
One will be able to assess Tesla's real market performance when the major manufacturers start selling EVs with comparable mileage capabilities.
I would much rather wait to buy an Audi EV SUV or a Mercedes EV SUV in 2019 or 2020, than buy a Tesla Model X right now. By waiting just a year or two, one deals with local dealerships, you have the usual availability of spares and parts for maintenance and body work, plus the already well-known quality and workmanship of an Audi, Mercedes, etc.
Tesla is not a bad choice, but when one is able to choose between a Tesla and Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Ford/Toyota/etc with comparable stats, I think most people will stick with the more familiar brand that they can buy from their local dealership.
First to market, yes. And first to make it 'cool'. I have a hard time thinking BMW bolting batteries into a car will take away from the novelty factor of the Model S. It's not just about propulsion, it's everything -- the styling, the electronics, the early adopter thing, street cred, etc.
It's "do you want to buy one of half a dozen old school cars, or this new COOL thing?"
How many Prius owners have seen a Honda hybrid of some sort and been surprised that Honda makes a hybrid?
Honda had the first mass-produced US-market hybrid, and was the first to make it cool.
OTOH, the first-gen Prius was more broadly useful than the super-small first-gen Insight that preceded it to the US market.
Not sure how this is supposed to map to Tesla, are you trying to say Tesla is like Toyota or Honda in this comparison?
In the same way, I don't see electric cars from BMW or Audi or Mercedes competing with Tesla on day 1. It's just JUST the powertrain that's drawing people to the Tesla. Some of the pro-Tesla draws are down to vanity or image, and others are more tangible.
https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/tesla-people-hate-me-but...
TL;DR, it is roughly same size and offers same leg room as BMW series 5 and Mercedes Class E, besides, given that virtually no BMW or Mercedes is sold in a base equipment version and that the government subsidizing for fully electric cars must be taken into account they are also in an approximately similar price range.
https://blog.redlock.io/cryptojacking-tesla
Remember, we don't even have 1/1000 of the cars on the road as self-driving vehicles, and yet these carmakers' systems are already getting hacked. What we can expect when/if Tesla and other carmakers have 50 million self-driving vehicles each on the road?
That's the most you can ask for beyond basic competence. There will always be security bugs in software to some extent, the fact that Tesla responded quickly gives me more confidence in them.
But I agree with your overall point, at some point some hacker is going to kill people with a hacked car (probably not a Tesla), and it's going to take lots of dead bodies and legislation for congress to pass appropriate standards for security. Hopefully we'll reach a point where computer security in cars is regulated the same as seat belts and air bags.
This is about the minimum they should do with self-driving cars, yet it's still about an order of magnitude more than their "most they can do" right now:
http://ideas.4brad.com/disconnected-car-right-security-plan-...
Tesla cars' "features" such as remote control, accessing any car from its servers, over-the-air updates, and more features like that will have a direct impact in helping attackers take over Teslas' cars.
How they design the security architecture of their self-driving cars now will determine whether or not Tesla's cars will be the "Windows XP" of the 2020s. I think it's way better to criticize/give them feedback on this now, while the architecture is still being developed, than after the potential Windows XP is already "finished" and live on 50 million cars. And yes, that goes for every other carmaker, too, not just Tesla.
Plus, I don't know about you, but a TV ad saying "Tesla - the only self-driving car that hackers can't drive off the highway" sounds like it would be quite effective to me.
This is the same argument people make when they say "drone strikes are the same as air strikes". Not they are not. We're seeing orders of magnitude more drone strikes than air strikes, and that's because they are different (such as much cheaper and easier to do than ever before).
This is what the CIA/Mossad/FSB/... does
Sure, cars will make it cheaper and more convenient, and will open up the "market" to smaller states, but it's not a new capability.
At the same time, I’m pretty sure they could come up with much better ways of killing people than this. Technology makes really dystopian shit a lot easier.
Most of the discussion I've seen around trying to hack Tesla vehicles is that they are impressively secure, although persevering white-hats have found ways in here and there, which Tesla have quickly patched.
Its true that we're in a brave new world of hackable cars though. Tesla imho have a better software pedigree than the other automakers so that will hopefully keep them ahead.
I think the Mayor of Belfast still rides in the back of a 7.
But both the S-class and the 7-series are very VERY rare luxury cars. I see thousands of 5-series and E-classes for every 7-series or S-class. The difference in price must be huge in europe compared to the US, because there I saw tons of 7-series and S-class was almost as common as E-class.
oh wait, it's not 2013 anymore.. never mind.
From the Hacker News Guidelines [1]: "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter."
Level of luxury doesn't matter at all in this case. The car is electric, and therefore, is subsidized.