Comment by sixdimensional | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sixdimensional | Hacker News Reader

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This one bit me. When I was fresh out of school I worked for a "from the garage" startup. I was naive and working around the clock nights and weekends, and the owners told me to think of it like I was part of a family. I fell for it, thinking "we are all in this together" and using it to justify the stress and hard work.

When the company succeeded, due in part to the systems I built and designed from scratch, I was unceremoniously asked to leave a few weeks before the transaction closed for many millions. I was asked to leave because as we drew nearer to a sale of the company, I had the nerve to ask for the company to put on paper how I would be a part of that transaction, since I had been verbally promised that "a rising tide floats all boats" and I would be rewarded handsomely for my work. Mistake #2 of 1000 then, accepting a verbal agreement over one in writing.

In the end, when I asked about getting it in writing so close to the sale, I was asked to leave. When I said, "but, you told me I was to think of this like a family", I was told, "we thought you were smarter than that".

That episode did a lot of damage, and I never saw anything meaningful in terms of compensation- the owners got fabulously wealthy.

I made many mistakes then, and I could have pursued legal action, but it was all too painful.

Since then I always try to insulate my feelings and remember that in a professional setting I can always do my best and be professional, but to always remember that to others, it really can be "just business". It's important to keep some distance and avoid emotional abuse at work, both doing it and receiving it.

It's not to say we can't be friendly, but just to be professional, honest and ethical in the workplace, always.

Edit: I meant to mention, that in this job, I was working for the "changing the world part", but when I saw the imminent sale coming and I had nothing, felt I had to ask if I would be a part of it. Back then, it was a mistake for me as well, to assume that I was going to do good and get handsomely rewarded and expect that the two would come together. I think it can happen, but I learned the hard way how to compartmentalize changing the world and getting paid with simply doing necessary work to get paid and survive.

And so many people out there wonder why engineers are hesitant to work for startups now, and demand high salaries.

I do also feel that the founders in that story should be named and shamed. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of behavior. They should never be able to do that to anyone ever again.

I do completely empathise with the parent, but you also have to consider it from the other perspective.

If those type of employers could get "named and shamed" based on someones verbal only, then it would be a dangerous society we live in. On the other hand, if it was written down, there would have been no problem in the first place.

I believe that naming and shaming unscrupulous founders who fuck over people like this would encourage more to codify these agreements in writing from the get-go.

The company is the one that made the verbal agreement, which they could have written down at any time. The company is the one that abused it's power, and most importantly, the trust of the employee. To me, that is an incredibly heinous act, which should come with draconian punishments.

In this case, maybe. But I am talking in general. In general we don't know who to believe, founder or employee. I would imagine there would be just as many unjustifiable disgruntled employees than there are unscrupulous founders. Therefore we must maintain the resumption of innocence until proven guilty. I.e In writing. The moral of this story is that you don't invest money or time in words, and the parent will likely have learnt a costly lesson.

The fact that you're saying "the company is the one..." and that they should suffer draconian punishments after reading an anonymous internet comment is exactly why we shouldn't treat verbal contracts seriously.

You don't know if the company did anything.

A company that's on the up and up will make sure the contracts are in place. One that is not will rely on people forgetting their verbal contracts.

And my draconian punishment remark was directed at founders who fuck over their employees in general. Violating that trust should carry extremely heavy penalties, to the point where you are much worse off than if you didn't.

I am sorry that you have to go through that. I can understand the disappointment and indeed every episode in life should make us stronger when we look back. Personally I would sue the owner. A verbal promise can be argued and it makes total sense for me to embarrass an adult like this owner.

I was in a similar situation, and another aspect to this issue is - if the company is large enough - HR departments who put on events or team-building activities or otherwise try to encourage a sense of how great the company is and how great it is to be part of the company; e.g., company potluck this Friday! There is nothing wrong with these things, per se, but what is disturbing is how this HR "PR" does try to give this sense of "belonging" and "family" which is ultimately at odds with the bottom line of the business. No, HR dept., unless you have unusually altruistic owners, the business is not there to make one big happy family; it's about the bottom line.

Name and shame buddy, we need to know who the toxic abusive employers are. There is no such thing as professional decency in this situation. Exploitative capitalist behaviour needs to be dealt with in unconventional ways.

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