How Protein Conquered America | Hacker News Reader

How Protein Conquered America

eater.com

59 pointspmcpinto53 comments

> Once the niche elixir of powerlifting bros ... about one gram per pound of bodyweight is the bro’s rule of thumb

> The company is currently focused on drawing in women, in large part because they are the primary drivers of lifestyle fitness.

Am I the only one who sees the term "bro" as disparaging? If not, why disparage men who lift by calling them "bros" but women who keep fit "women"? If the article called women "babes" or some "bro" equivalent, people would take the writer to task.

> If not, why disparage men who lift by calling them "bros" but women who keep fit "women"? If the writer called women "babes" or some "bro" equivalent, people would take him to task.

Babe is not a bro equivalent, and here you can see plenty of men who lift using the term:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bro+site%3Abodybuilding.com

I feel like a lot of people that aren't masculine men grew up seeing, both in their lives and as depicted in popular media, masculine men as bullies. As such a huge portion of society - women and men who aren't masculine - grows up with a negative opinion of masculinity.

This bias against masculinity has spread as women and femininity have become more prominent and powerful in society.

The feminine attitude is opposite the masculine in many respects, so it's natural that the two would dislike one another and come into conflict.

As our society shifts to one in which the feminine is embraced rather than rejected, and the masculine continues to be seen as a menace to society, it's considered more acceptable to mock "bros" than a female or feminine equivalent.

Edit: both the feminine and masculine aspects of personality have their strengths and weaknesses. Neither is really better than the other in some objective sense. Different situations call for different attitudes.

> I feel like a lot of people that aren't masculine men grew up seeing, both in their lives and as depicted in popular media, masculine men as bullies. As such a huge portion of society - women and men who aren't masculine - grows up with a negative opinion of masculinity.

I could buy this except for the fact that I think there are a lot of "masculine men" who aren't "bros". The word "bro" brings to mind specific (negative) traits of anti-intellectualism, party hard mentalities, and rudeness.

I'm much more offended by the ratio being given as 'grams per pound'.

I appreciate the road to metric can be unsettling to the holdouts, but this doesn't feel like a good way to do it.

While you may be offended by it, this article didn't invent that ratio. It's been around for years, as far as I can tell. I'm not certain where it came from, but it's pretty normal to use grams per pound when discussing protein intake in the US.

It's normal because macronutrient content is usually reported in grams, and people tend to track their own weight in US customary units; grams per pound is the measure which respects the existing conventions in both relevant domains.

I appreciate the article didn't invent this ratio -- though this doesn't excuse the behaviour. Everyone, whenever they communicate, has the opportunity to improve things.

I'd argue it would be better described as 1 gram protein to 500gm (half a kilo) of body mass. That's actually a ratio, in the sense it can then be written simply as 1:500.

You could translate that to US imperial as the ratio 0.032:16 -- assuming ounces all the way down, of course. Convenient!

Microbloits to the parsec, football fields to the ocean, grams to the pound -- these are all just whacky to most people.

People here know offhand what they weigh in pounds, and the packaging on food lists macronutrient content in grams. The article could've listed g/kg as well, but for a US audience g/lb isn't particularly wacky.

I'm pretty sure this article was written by a lady

You're right. I edited my post not to specify the author's gender.

This article has a vaguely negative view of the high protein fad. However, if people are even occasionally switching from sugary drinks (pepsi, coke, starbucks, etc.) to protein drinks, that's probably net good for people's health. Not because excess protein is beneficial, but because it isn't as harmful as excess sugar.

'Good healthy' is not always what it seems, there is a disease of orthorexia and 'clean eating' that is notionally very healthy - everything is juiced into kale smoothies (cellulose the body still can't digest...) - and people don't do too well out of it.

As a vegetarian I have had to my own perspective on mankind's obsession with protein for a long time, really it is over-rated as the body makes the proteins it needs from amino acids, not from protein eaten from i.e. a sausage made of pig gristle and shoved in an oven. Or from these whey powder things.

The only advantage of a large protein surplus is quickened muscle development. That aside I wouldn't discount the value of dietary protein. Testosterone levels in males this generation are already too low (leading to weakened hearts, infertility and apparently lethargy/depression), and protein is one thing that can help.

> protein is one thing (low testosterone levels) can help.

Do you have a source on this? I haven't heard this. I think I've heard that low protein consumption is linked to some cases of low testosterone levels, but that's all I was aware of.

Protein intake can also protect against lean body mass loss when fasting and losing weight. This prevents the trap of low weight, low basal metabolic rate many people experience after a diet, when they are in great danger of rapidly accumulating the weight back because they also lost muscle with the fat.

For a healthy person following a balanced diet not looking to lose weight or build muscle, protein supplementation is unnecessary and can even be harmful by over-exerting the kidneys.

> As a vegetarian I have had to my own perspective on mankind's obsession with protein for a long time, really it is over-rated as the body makes the proteins it needs from amino acids, not from protein eaten from i.e. a sausage made of pig gristle and shoved in an oven. Or from these whey powder things.

This is not fully true. There are essential amino acids which can not be synthesized by the body and need to come from consumption of external protein sources.

Which you can get from vegetarian food. Eggs contain the whole thing (if you count them as vegetarian). Nuts contain a lot of the right amino acids. And beans combined with grains also gives you whole proteins. Soy protein is also whole, I think, but there's still some debate whether it's healthy for men to consume so much soy.

Want protein? Get some nutritional yeast. You can add it to almost anything and get as much protein as you like. No fuss, no mess, no cholesterol, and cheap. No fat too.

But a very strong taste, no?

Yes, it's best to use nutritional yeast for savory foods. It really does bump up the umami flavor pretty well, and I think it tastes good, but I actually use it more for the flavor than for any nutritional aspect. Common uses in my kitchen:

- Using it with salt and water makes a kind of chicken broth'y flavor. - Butter or margerine on toast, then sprinkle nutritional yeast on top. Doesn't sound like it'll be good but a friend introduced this to me and it's one of my favorite snacks. - Add to tomato sauce for a "meat drippings" like flavor. For an easy and cheap spaghetti bolognese use TVP, nutritional yeast, a dash of tarmari, and your usual tomatoes and oregano and basil. - Of course, a lot of people use it as fake cheese... you can make a "nacho cheese" type flavor out of it easily

Tons more uses.

I’ll mix it with Hindu/Indian rice and olive oil. It scratches the fried chicken taste/texture.

>- Using it with salt and water makes a kind of chicken broth'y flavor. - Butter or margerine on toast, then sprinkle nutritional yeast on top.

Australians have something called Vegemite which they use like you say, on toast. (British too, with Marmite.) It's even mentioned in a song by the band Men at Work - "vegemite sandwich" or some such phrase - heard it as a kid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite#In_popular_culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

There are two books I have found that have recipes for vegan cheese. Nutritional yeast is a common ingredient. Eventually I'm going to try some of the recipes.

Nutritional yeast also has some health benefits beyond the standard nutritional content.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/nutritional-yeast-to-preven... https://nutritionfacts.org/video/preserving-immune-function-...

It's not cost efficient compared to whey protein.

4.5oz Nutritional yeast from Bragg gets you 50g (25 servings of 2g) of protein in the entire container for $7.29. That's about 15 cents per gram of protein.

ON Gold Standard Whey gets you 1776g (74 servings of 24g) for $55.04. Thats about 3 cents per gram of protein.

An entire $7 container of nutritional yeast is also only 50g total which is actually less than an entire days worth of protein for an adult male.

It just doesn't scale.

I've found I can get nutritional yeast comparatively cheap from the local co-op bulk bin. But full ACK that not everyone has such an option.

But... you can also get it online for fairly cheap! Here's a pound for less then 12 dollars. IME a pound goes a long way. https://www.amazon.com/Frontier-Co-op-Nutritional-Yeast-Flak...

Let’s not forget that dairy is heavily subsidized and created in larger scales.

There’s also ripple-nutritious pea milk. The unsweetened, original flavor has no carbs and factually more protein than really needed for a bowl of cereal.

How do eggs compare with yeast and whey and other protein foods, on your parameters?

Nutritional yeast has very little to no fat. Eggs and whey have large amounts of saturated fats and cholesterol. Yeast has no cholesterol.

Thanks. Whey too? I thought it was a by-product of making cheese (or paneer) and so would have little fat.

The bulk food store two blocks away sells nutritional yeast for $10 per pound. At 454 g in a pound and nutritional yeast about 50% protein, I calculate 4.4 cents per gram of protein.

Plus it's 25% fiber, no factory farming, fortified with B-12 and I love the taste mixed into stews.

I’ve mixed it into spaghetti sauce too.

That's just silliness.

Why?

While an additional 6-8 tablespoons of nutritional yeast sounds like a great addition to my day, it's going to get old before the end of the week.

Is this a sponsored post? Author hammered MUSCLE MILK into my head like 300 times...

it's literally entirely about the company. maybe it's sponsored but it doesn't hide that its focus is muscle milk.

Muscle Milk is one of if not the most popular protein supplement among the casual lifting and exercise crowd, so it makes sense to focus on it in this context. More serious lifters general do not consume their products because most of them are fairly inefficient from a cost and protein / calorie standpoint.

Optimum Nutrition's products are the gold standard for more serious lifters when it comes to protein powder. Quest bars are probably the gold standard for protein bars.

Here's examine.com:

30g of protein in one sitting seems to be a myth: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-...

There's really no suggestion that too much protein is harmful, unless you already have damaged kidneys. What might be is very suddenly drastically increasing protein intake, or taking a lot after prolonged fasting: https://examine.com/nutrition/can-eating-too-much-protein-be...

AFAIK high protein consumption without enough water will be bad for you. And most people don't drink enough water. So they need to be aware of this.

Do you have a reference for that? I'm interested in learning more. The linked article says:

It is generally recommended to consume more water during periods when protein intake is being increased. Whether or not this has biological basis is not known, but it may be prudent to do.

I'm not sure why that recommendation exists if it's unknown if or why it actually makes a difference.

This article seems like yet another diet fad article that focuses on one class of food in isolation, despite appearing to be an analysis of such. Of course Americans like to eat protein. I was a vegetarian for several years, and I came to know the feeling of being hungry in a certain way that was not satisfied by carbs or oil... it’s the only thing you can’t cut out.

It’s just that Americans are assessing their diets more realistically these days. The change is really about what they’re avoiding – carbohydrates. I know some people who strictly avoid carbohydrates, and their diets are composed almost solely of meat. It’s basically the manly American man’s dream that this diet now has modern socially justification.

Personally, I have a great interest in protein right now because I am recovering from celiac and have an esophageal dysfunction that makes it difficult to eat anything solid or semi-solid. Also trying to avoid the common 8 allergens (no soy, animal milk, or nuts) so that leaves even fewer liquid protein options. It’s easy to get carbs and oils as a liquid, but for protein my current choices, which are almost I can tolerate, are vegan protein powder made from hemp, cranberry and peas, and bone broth. Unfortunately most of these products are geared towards weight loss, which is the opposite of what I need since I’ve lost 30 pounds since the beginning of the year, but it’s easy to add calories as honey or coconut oil.

An very underestimated nutrient is fat. The Wikipedia entry on "rabbit hunger" has some very graphic descriptions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning

The human body can do without carbohydrates (the Inuit have some evolutionary adaptations towards a mostly-meat diet), but not without proteins or fats.

Nice to read an article like this by an actual lifter (who also happens to be a very good writer). I find that product to taste absolutely terrible, and assumed its popularity had to do with anything but its taste. Also I think the name is absolutely horrible. My anecdata has nothing to do with whether it’s a good product, clearly

I agreed with the closing of the article, that it tasted like dessert - the most chocolate shake-like of protein drinks. I consider that a negative, though, as it packs in the damned calories accordingly. If I’m taking my protein in supplement form, i want max protein/calorie.

OnWhey double chocolate tastes pretty decent too, especially with some frozen banana or berries blended in, but doesn’t carry the unnecessary calories that MM does.

i remember when muscle milk first came out ~10 years ago and all the frat boys could afford it and i couldn't. i remember having one or two and being impressed with how good it tasted relative to my homespun concoctions. now 10 years later ample disposable income to sample around i realize muscle milk was just the first to make protein shakes palatable. now it's barely above revolting relative to lots of other brands.

Muscle milk in the pre-packaged bottles tastes really "chemically" to me for some reason. I buy it when I forget my shaker bottle but I really wish I had other options for that situation.

Does the powder have that same effect?

I feel the same about Muscle Milk. Terrible taste (and too many artificial ingredients), and ironically has no milk.

Try Core Power (the 42gr one). It tastes great, and actually feels like a genuine milk product.

https://taldepot.com/core-power-elite-chocolate-high-protein...

It has a number of milk derivatives if you ready the ingredients, but no liquid milk.

I'll plug True Nutrition [0] as probably the best source for bulk protein (and other) powders. Lowest prices, highest quality, and - most importantly - every product comes in an unflavored option.

Flavored protein products make me want to gag, since almost none of them can get it right. Occasionally a brand has a good chocolate, banana, or strawberry, but day in and day out, even good flavors get gross.

Unflavored protein drink instead of milk over cereal is a revelation, and squirting some chocolate syrup or Mio water enhancer into unflavored protein I find tastes better than any pre-flavored powder.

That said, PEScience peanut butter cup protein [1] is super legit.

[0] http://truenutrition.com

[1] https://pescience.com/collections/protein/products/select-pr...

I’ve used True Nutrition for years. It’s great for bulk protein.

With that said, I’m okay with the MM flavors if I need something quick on the go. I think I’ve just grown accustomed to eating and drinking things for ‘nutrition’ that I can get down almost anything at this point.

> Concern-trolling attempts (“How much protein is too much?”) can only shadowbox confounding factors, like intake of animal protein (which tends to be higher in saturated fats).

What does shadowbox mean?

Boxing without an opponent. It’s a training method and happens to be highly effective at making you fitter, but it’s just not good to improve your boxing skills per se.

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