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Comment by SpikeDad | Hacker News Reader

If you sell 15 million of something (or whatever the actual number is - I've seen anywhere from 11 to 20 million) then where is the evidence that they made a questionable design decision?

My iPhone X is the best phone I've every used and the notch is a nothing burger except for folks that can only knock Apple.

Naturally they want software to play ball - what company doesn't want software to work well with their hardware?

Sounds like someone that has an agenda. And Ars' use of "DICTATE" is a loaded word they obviously used to boost click-ability. There are plenty of other words like requires, updates standards, etc that don't have the connotation of dictates.

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The fact that they have sold so many phones may simply indicate that the other perceived benefits outweigh the poor notch decision. Plus, lots of mass market products are terribly designed. They sold over 3 million Ford Pintos.

I have an iPhone X. I barely ever notice the notch. And the screen looks amazing.

That's not actually an argument against saying the notch was a bad design decision. Just because people can tolerate it in order to get access to an iPhone with an OLED screen (or other X features) doesn't make it a feature that users see as a positive.

I've never seen anyone say they like the notch, only tolerate / ignore it.

You will find people who say they like Face ID, though, and there’s no way to have that without the notch. It’s not like apple woke up one day and said fuck it let’s take a notch out of the screen for no reason.

> and there’s no way to have that without the notch.

There is, the notch could instead be a black bar that extends across the width of the screen. whether that's a better decision is arguable, but it's definitely possible.

I wouldn't have been so annoyed if it was actually treated as the engineering concession that it is. From a user experience POV, the obvious thing to do with an OLED screen would have been to make the notch the same height as the status bar, and have the status bar white-on-black.

Instead, they chose to rub the user's face in it as a marketing ploy.

It’s your opinions vs Jony Ives whether its good design or not. Most people here seem to side with Jony and not you, of course you are entitled to your opinions.

The iPhone X is the best device I've owned. The notch quickly became unnoticeable but took a few days to get used to lack of a physical home button but that's also become natural to use and going back to use my wife's iPhone now feels more mechanical/primitive.

I tried an X, and bought a 7 instead. The notch was ugly.

So now we've shared competing anecdotes. We can conclude only that anecdotes aren't arguments.

So you reply with another anecdote? The sales figures prove that it has been seen as largely successful.

I'm pointing out that my anecdote is no more or less relevant than anyone else's anecdote.

"The sales figures prove that it has been seen as largely successful."

Demand for the X has actually been pretty weak:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-to-curtail-iphone-x-produ...

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/26/investing/iphone-x-weak-sale...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-iphone/apple-suppli...

https://mashable.com/2018/01/22/iphone-x-discontinued-predic...

You've successfully referenced rumor sources with click bait headlines published before Apple announced their actual results:

> “We’re thrilled to report the biggest quarter in Apple’s history, with broad-based growth that included the highest revenue ever from a new iPhone lineup. iPhone X surpassed our expectations and has been our top-selling iPhone every week since it shipped in November,”

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/02/apple-reports-first-q...

iPhone sales were down 1.24 percent year over year. They made more money because the phone is more expensive. Also, nothing in that statement negates anything said in the links I posted.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/1/16961562/apple-q1-2018-ear...

Yes unit sales were down 1.24%, which is contributed by Q1 2017 results reporting 14 weeks instead of 13 weeks this quarter, the iPhone X being supply constrained and basic economics 101 law of supply/demand when raising prices.

Since you're quoting percentages to justify your insistence of "Demand for the X has actually been pretty weak", here are some more percentages you've left out:

> The Company posted quarterly revenue of $88.3 billion, an increase of 13 percent from the year-ago quarter and an all-time record, and quarterly earnings per diluted share of $3.89, up 16 percent, also an all-time record.

I'm responding to the unsubstantiated claim that:

> lots of mass market products are terribly designed

Insinuating the iPhone X is terribly designed which isn't my experience (the only one I have). By definition all personal experiences are anecdotal, so no I haven't conducted any empirical studies (neither have you), but we can infer given the iPhone X is Apple's top selling phone that most people prefer the iPhone X despite its higher price.

No, you aren't. You're saying that you liked the iPhone, which is evidence neither for nor against the parent's claim.

"we can infer given the iPhone X is Apple's top selling phone that most people prefer the iPhone X despite its higher price."

Maybe, maybe not. But that's not what you said. You said merely that you liked the iPhone X.

You're either very confused or trolling.

I have directly responded to the comment I've quoted, as evident by looking at the parent comment that my comment replied to.

> Maybe, maybe not. But that's not what you said.

That's exactly what I've said, you've even copied it verbatim, which was in response to your comment pointing out the very obvious fact that personal experiences are anecdotal, which you've somehow tried to contradict using your own anecdote. It should not surprise anyone that most comments are anecdotal (especially those beginning with 'I') but which should at least count for 1 data point with experience which is more than enough to respond to unsubstantiated claims.

"That's exactly what I've said, you've even copied it verbatim"

No, I didn't. But I will now:

"The iPhone X is the best device I've owned. The notch quickly became unnoticeable but took a few days to get used to lack of a physical home button but that's also become natural to use and going back to use my wife's iPhone now feels more mechanical/primitive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16403374

Yes you actually did copy what I've said verbatim, now you're showing you're able to copy entire comments as well, congratz, which you may think was pointless, but it does answer whether you're confused or just trolling.

Come on you guys, please don't sink into pointless tit for tats.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Why not leave that choice up to the developer? If the new phone is so awesome then other developers will make awesome apps for it and if you don't support it your app will not succeed. Apple is threatening the revenue of companies and forcing them into spending their resources to support a product which they had zero say in. Anyway, why is dictate a loaded word here? Can an app maker say 'no'?

It's in Apple's interest to enforce proper support. Otherwise devs would just rely on compatibility and people would get used to the idea that iPhone X is the one where apps don't really work that well. Almost nobody would question whether that's dev's or apple's fault.

Oh it's certainly in Apple's interest. I don't really care about their interest though. They have a large enough megaphone to take care of their own issues. I prefer to support the other side in such matters.

>Otherwise devs would just rely on compatibility and people would get used to the idea that iPhone X is the one where apps don't really work that well. Almost nobody would question whether that's dev's or apple's fault.

Microsoft spends their own money to make sure apps work with a newer version of Windows. I'd say that is the right choice given the enormous disparity in resources.

John Siracusa said something years ago that’s often repeated. Apple’s priorities are Apple first, customers second, developers third.

I’ve read on the official Microsoft blogs how many special case hacks are in Windows just to maintain compatibility with one app. Can you imagine how horrible that code base must be?

I am a developer and have been one professionally for 20+ years. I have a hard time for feeling bad for developers who have to actually do their job and keep up with technological changes.

Exactly. Look at the unbelievably pathetic Android Tablet apps! Except for top 10 games and some of the video streaming apps, most of the apps look like crap.

My comment was just about Apple/dev/customer interaction. What you're describing does not match my experience with Android tablets.

They would have sold 15 million of whatever was in the box labeled 'iPhone X.' Especially given the absence of competition in the all-important "Just sell me a phone that doesn't completely suck" category.

The notch was a disturbing design decision not because it was all that awful, but because it was a run-of-the-mill faux pas that should have been obvious. You don't have to be an expert at human psychology to realize that people won't see the extra pixels you're giving them on either side, they'll only see the "missing" ones in the middle.

It seems that Apple is so focused on the details that they're starting to overlook obvious things. Ever proofread a long document, combing through the footnotes and spending hours on the spelling and grammar minutiae, only to realize later that you overlooked a glaring typo in an 18-point subheading? That's the notch.

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