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Comment by Clubber | Hacker News Reader

When I went to college, CS required 3 semesters of Calc and 3 semesters of Physics. It's almost as if CS was trying to fill in some hours. Calc and Physics are great and all, but very narrowly applicable. The only benefit is how it works your brain (and a good weed out course).

I would ditch that and concentrate only on computer related issues. Database would be a big one that is usually missing. Networking as well. Computer architecture (like building a computer and the Von-Neumann model) should also be included. Basic project management would be helpful too. That's 4-6 courses you could suppliant with Physics 1-3 and Calc 1-3.

It just seems silly to force CS kids to learn Physics and Calc when it is seldom used in the real world. I would much rather have a grad know the ins and outs of networking and how a computer actually works than Calc and Physics.

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I agree on physics, less on Calc.

However, the explanation behind such a program is probably the distinction between vocational training and academic training. At least, here in the Netherlands, academic CS taught in academic institutions lies on the theoretical side. In such an academic CS program there are some practical courses. Stuff on databases, networking and computer architecture. But those are high level, and quite theoretical. Were they not, there would be a lot of push-back because they are almost considered demeaning.

Meanwhile, with the vocational instituion, things are very practical as far as I know. Much of those courses are actually building practical software. In large projects aimed at real uses. Meanwhile, in the academic institutions, you'll have multiple projects that boil down to 'implement gradient descent in MATLAB'.

I've heard it said that even though the academic institution is much harder and prestigious, when it comes to making practical software you are better of taking someone from the vocational instituion. Or at the very least, if you take someone from the academic institution you'll need to invest more time into training.

There is a bit of tension here where 'really smart people' who want to just become really good at a job are still expected to go to the academic institution for the prestige. Then, those people get less practical knowledge than they want because they are at an academic institution.

In Germany we have two different kinds of universities, the normal ones and the universities of applied sciences. After spending two semesters at a university (with fairly good grades) I switched to the uni of applied sciences. It was far too theoretical, and I'm not talking about the algorithms and data structures kind of theoretical. More like prove that a nondeterministic fa is not "mightier" / able to compute more than a DFA.

That was not what I wanted and I'm quite happy at the uni of applied sciences now, and since most of our profs have an industry background (and a Dr.) we learn a lot of practical things.

E.g. Git, build management, agile development, a module about usability and user experience, networks, applied algorithms and data structures, some math (proofs where a side note though) etc

On the other hand, some of my fellow students ... Well, one task last semester was to program some really easy program with java, connect to a database with jdbc, do something with the data and write it back. We didn't know about jdbc until then. After a module is finished we have the opportunity to fill out a questionnaire about it and at least half of the class wrote that it was not ok to demand something like this. It boggles the mind.

We should have something like that in the Netherlands. We do have 'university' and 'technical university' but I just looked at the curriculum for CS at a technical university and it is similarly theoretical. You really need to go to HBO (höhere Berufsbildung, Higher Professional Education) to get that practical approach.

This is sadly considered as plain easier than university. It probably is as well, but that leaves a gap for professional training at a higher level. It sounds like the 'Technische universitat' in Germany nicely fills that gap, or is that still considered as easier than normal university?

> 'Technische Universität'

That's just what the Universities which focus more on STEM as opposed to Literature/Law/Psychology call themselves.

I've found that some universities have a program like this -- replacing the calc, physics and higher-level math with more hands-on classes. At my university, a BA in CS was like this, while a BS maintained the rigorous math requirements. I've also seen programs labeled Information Systems that's similar.

Not sure I agree with whole-scale removal of it though. I have to use calculus every once in a while in my job. While I never integrate by hand, I certainly need to know what integrals and derivatives are and how/when they are applied.

Yes, Information Systems type degrees are close, but at my school they weren't strong on programming, instead required Accounting I+II, Finance, Marketing, Management, Business Ethics and that sort of thing.

My wife got her CIS degree a few years ago and they seem to have improved a bit. She had multiple programming courses in several languages along with more advanced CS courses and database courses.

Also, I would think just 1 semester Calc and Physics would be beneficial to add more applicable subject would be a fine compromise. 3 of each seems really excessive. That cirriculum was created when computers weren't overly complicated. I know that had it back in the 90s. There's just been too many important innovations in computing that are ignored because of Calc and Physics IMO.

Asymptotic notation is defined using limits. In fact a lot of concepts in CS involve limits, convergence, etc.

The problem is that most calculus courses were devised before the widespread availability of Wolfram Alpha and focus too much on hand computation rather than understanding of the subject.

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