PG about to speak at Facebook, partnership announcement to follow
twitter.com
twitter.com
Step 1. They'll announce that Facebook is going to invest in any Y Combinator companies that want to make their products work well with Facebook.
Step 2. They'll announce that Facebook will pre-acquire any Y Combinator companies without going through the trouble of demo day, angel investment, etc.
Step 3. Getting accepted to Y Combinator will mean automatically being acquired by Facebook. All Y Combinator founders will have guaranteed jobs at Facebook with 4 year vesting lockup.
Step 4. Paul and Jessica realize that there's no glory in being Facebook's unpaid campus recruiters, but unfortunately, their own vesting deal will require them to hang around pretending to be friends with Mark Zuckerberg for another 13 months.
(Disclaimer: I loathe facebook)
]> host Facecombinator.com
Facecombinator.com has address 69.163.237.51http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/upstart-attacks-fac...
Maybe I'm just a wuss.
If I were them - and I'm not a wuss - I'd change names pronto. You pick your battles, and in a case like this the downside is considerable for very little upside, already 'teachbook.com' has had a bunch of free publicity, more than they could hope to get otherwise.
If a steamroller the size of FB aims for you and you're not 100% in the clear (and I really don't see how they could make the case that they came up with the name independently and were not aware of the facebook brand and website) then you fold.
The person behind facecombinator.com is a wuss too, because they registered the name through an anonymizer, that speaks of 'bad faith' to me. If you've got nothing to hide and you're above board, don't hide.
Found the link: http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/12/twitter-tweet-button/
I do see mentioning of an agreement with Twitter but it is my understanding that Twitter has a licensing agreement to use the tweetmeme technology not that tweetmeme will be powering everything.
Edit: You could be right about the Tweet Button. DataSift will be run on TweetMeme's servers drawing data from the firehose.
As far as reimplementing goes, I think they'd just buy you first. They've already invested time and resources to help you develop your app/site, so it will be natural for them just to aquire you.
It's perfect for YC (extra high chance for the startups to be bought by FB) and good for FB (people doing cool, interesting social things they can incorporate). I am still not a fan, but I guess I'm not a huge fan of Facebook anyways.
Sure, but there is a risk/benefit analysis to be done here. If you bet your business on one big company like that, you not only are you betting that the company won't choose to squish you, you are also betting that the company will remain strong enough to support you for as long as it matters.
If you are aiming to build a modest company whose service is fundamentally tied into a currently dominant big player and probably looking for an early exit, that might not matter all that much. On the other hand, if you have a neat general idea and the big company just happens to be the dominant platform in a relevant field today, that doesn't mean they will still be so tomorrow, and your idea might fit with competitor platforms just as neatly.
Personally, of all the companies in the world I would not build my business around today, Facebook is one of the top three. The others are Google and Apple. All three have a demonstrable history of trying stuff and then backpeddling, so if you get taken over, you might get a bit from your options but your idea and future development are hardly secure. All three have a track record of screwing the little guy, sometimes without even noticing, so if you're just building on their platform independently, you're highly vulnerable. And worst of all, I expect all three to take a severe legal and/or market-driven beating within the next couple of years.
For Google or Facebook, it will probably be on privacy grounds. You just can't go around making the arrogant statements their execs keep making, and presuming to collect and sell that kind of personally sensitive data, in a world where the public is increasingly concerned about these things and serious crime built around data loss and ID theft is rising fast. Both companies have already been hit hard by privacy watchdogs in several countries.
For Apple, it will probably be because the walls around their garden aren't strong enough but their corporate arrogance makes them think they are. Steve will probably just wake up one morning and suddenly realise that Android phones or a resurgence from a player like Palm or Blackberry has taken most of his market share, without even noticing how it happened.
Plus of course there are always the basic business threats. Facebook only needs enough people to start leaving that it can no longer function as the de facto standard way for friends to share stuff and it's toast, just like other social networks before it. Google only needs someone else to come up with a better way to do search and it's toast, just like other search engines before it. Apple... Well, they have a prestige brand in the middle of the worst financial crisis in two generations, so you do the math.
To avoid going down with the ship, if I were building a new on-line tool today and needed to work with a big player for platform support, I would definitely want to be working on portable, open standards as much as possible. That is exactly what big players like Facebook do not have, and will try to their dying financial statement not to introduce since it would be anathema to their business model.
Facebook is a business. They'll do whatever is in their business interests. If it is "block and copy such and such app" and they can do it without significant reputational damage (which is really the only protection YC startups will have), they will do it.
At some point the stability, openness, and size are enough to reduce the risk to a very low level. I'm sure it's safe to bet on: Windows, OSX, and Google. I really don't think Facebook is there yet. Not given how quickly we went from Friendster -> MySpace -> Facebook.
Also, Facebook can implement your idea even if you're not on their platform. Look at FB Places. I don't see how using the FB platform makes it any more likely that they will move into your space.
A platform becoming your competitor is fair game, and doesn't imply they will do anything sneaky like making their platform any less accessible to you. Microsoft is in the Operating System business, but MS Office is a fair competitor to other office suites that run on Windows.
I understand the concern about Facebook though, because they aren't (yet) a platform like Windows is. Microsoft started out making the platform, and then built some nice user facing applications to go on top of it. MS Office uses the same OS system calls that are available to every Windows developer.
Facebook started out as a user facing product (facebook.com) and then pushed down into the stack. The issue with that is that facebook.com and other Facebook products are based on leaky abstractions. They don't just sit on top of the Facebook platform. They can do things with the social graph that no 3rd party application can do. This is where Facebook can have an unfair advantage, and why people are worried about building on top of them.
The good thing is that Facebook is working on sealing off the abstraction barrier between their platform and their products. Look at the evolution of their API's. MUCH better social applications are going to pop up once we can all build the same user-facing products that Facebook can build. The great thing is that it's in their best interest. Facebook is much more powerful as Windows than as MS Office.
FWIW, I spoke with Zuckerberg today. He certainly didn't set off my "jerk detector" in any way.
When I say "not a jerk" I'm thinking a strong respect for liberty (individual rights / respect for the rights of others). However, and a lot of this is influenced by allegations, Mark has done the following wrong by my reckoning, enough to question whether he is safely "not a jerk":
1. Been trusted with source code and market insight from a group he worked with, told them it was useless and then used it to develop his own site.
2. Shown little respect for privacy or IP concerns of users until market pressure forced him.
3. Been dishonest with users by changing terms and using the data of users for Facebook business purposes without explicit permission (now largely rectified).
4. Copied the look, feel and features of early competitors while litigating those who attempt the same with Facebook.
5. Allegedly (unlikely perhaps) given away a share of the company as part of overdue project complications and not advised future investors.
While a lot of this is probably untrue, it's enough for me to question the man's integrity, honesty and ability to be trusted.
However, founders don't have 100 companies they are investing, so the risks are not felt the same by founders and angels.
Angel conf presentations say a lot more: http://justin.tv/ycombinator
Also, pg explicitely mentions founders not willing to take a safe exit now instead of an uncertain big exit in a possible future may not be such a good idea (http://paulgrahamsidebar.heroku.com/guidetoinvestors.html#gm...)
But my question was not regarding YC, but more about angels.
If investors don't like that return, then they should set their liquidation preference high enough to make whatever profit they want.
Of course, founders would be free to ignore anyone who's money is too expensive, too....
Maybe devs who work with FB connect more often can clarify.. Thanks in advance.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1172025
;)
Joking aside, this is an interesting development, it means that anybody looking to disrupt FB or something affiliated with FB is now going to avoid applying to YC unless they intend do be acquired.
1) HN is not a product development group, it's a message-board. In the same way that the community bulletin-board at the grocery store is not a think-tank for the "Big Agro", "Mainstream Media", or the "Military Industrial Complex".
2) Port everything to Arc? Riiiight, because the raison d'être of YCombinator is to further PG's closet lambda cause and preach the merits of his pet Lisp dialect.
2) That was a joke. Though I definitely would have rather coded in Arc than PHP when I was at Facebook.
There is a reason I am not at Slashdot.
PS: You need to chill out.
Unless facebook would like to put their fingers all over YC's, including those that aren't related to facebook in any way - e.g. "Pg says we MUST have facebook integration like this, we have this document we got from facebook on how and what to put into our product. Do it bro - he'll shoot us in the face. Here he comes, I can hear the lambda keychain. Just do it!".
Curious if anyone else has the same opinions that I do - not mature enough to trust just yet...