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Comment by gtirloni | Hacker News Reader

Time suggestions are usualy completely off the mark. Four hours turn into 20 for anything resembling production code (which is what companies are interested in).

I like the idea of take home projects but it shouldn't come right after a phone screen or even the first real interview. More like as close to the last step as possible.

And then there's the question of what other professions ask candidates to work X hours for free. Let's assume our field is too special and not get too deep into the rabbit role ;)

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In my view successful take home assignments have 2 objective measures of if they are likely to be successful:

- did every dev at the company pass it at some point? (If so you should know fairly accurately how long it takes)

- does it replace the majority of the interview time? (If not you probably don’t actually get why it’s important)

I can vouch for this. A simple 2 hour script turned into a 2 day affair since production quality code was expected. Thankfully the assignment was spread over two weeks.

I agree that time suggestions are usually way off, which can be a positive and a negative. On one hand, you can spend a ton of time to go above and beyond, while on the other hand, you may have other priorities. I think if you're really excited about a job or company, you can show that by putting a lot of effort in.

That inherently biases the interview process away from people that have additional commitments in life. You're going to end up preferentially treating those that are currently unemployed versus people that have jobs, for example.

Also, you're likely to be homogenizing your applicant base. Expect to see many more young people and recent grads versus people with kids.

I agree with your point. I'll add that for new developers and those without the traditional CS background (both of whom are my target audience for this guide) spending the extra time is a learning experience for them that can make them better developers.

Ultimately, it's not the applicant's choice what the parameters of the interview process are (I commend you for working to make it better) - given that, why shouldn't an applicant try to give themselves an edge in the process?

You're completely right, Jane. I was viewing this pretty myopically from the hiring side as that's where I usually sit. Very true that candidates usually need to play somebody else's game, regardless of whether it's rigged.

"Work X hours for free" isn't limited to take-home assignments. I've been part of interviews that span multiple days and many hours.

Here is the breakdown of the worst one I've been part of:

* Initial phone screening with HR (~1 hr) * Technical interview over phone (~1-2 hr) * In person technical interview (~8 hr)

I kid you not, I had to take an entire day off work to be part of a grueling in-person interview where I met multiple teams.

This is also not taking into account the amount of time I had to exchange emails.

I would take a take-home assignment in the comfort of my own home, spanning 16 hours instead of an all-day in person interview.

I had a Meltdown ;-) after an exactly similar process. Hmm, what company was that?

>Time suggestions are usualy completely off the mark.

This is why you put a timer on the take home, it is better for everybody involved.

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