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Comment by saagarjha | Hacker News Reader

> Almost every TV on the market now is connected—because otherwise how do you Netflix and chill?

If you buy a "smart" TV, refuse to connect it to the internet and just get an Apple TV/Chromecast/whatever.

Yet when I try to tell people why copyleft ala GPLv3 that prevents tivoization is so important I get shouted out of the room.

I should have the ability to root and control the linux on my smarttv. Full stop. This is part of the problem. The same goes with things like phones. This is why both android and ios are NOT the mobile os of the future. They restrict the user from truly owning their device, and I'm fed up with this bullshit.

So remember that next time someone talks about how right Richard Stallman was right and gets downvoted to hell... HN is far too full of businesspeople pretending to be hackers instead of the other way around.

> This is why both android and ios are NOT the mobile os of the future.

I too would like a more open OS for mobiles, but you have to realize that the majority of users doesn't care about this. They are unconcerned about most privacy issues, don't need to ever tinker at a low level with their devices, and they are the ones ultimately deciding on what the future will be. What matters is the UI, and that the various features "just work".

You are in a minority, however vocal, that has little to no say in what the future of mobile OSes should be. My take on it is that whatever will replace android and ios will be even worse on these issues.

> the majority of users doesn't care about this

Only because they don't know what is going on.

Most people I talk to have a sense that all of these big companies (and the government) are violating them, but they feel completely helpless and so ignore the issue. It's extremely similar to people in a third world country that know their foods are being adulterated but can't afford imports and still have to shop.

They only have a vague sense, but they don't understand the direct consequences of specific actions.

There's also a belief in the false idea that, "they already have all of my data, so there is nothing I can do about it."

It's arguable that one needs a mobile phone to participate in modern life (and the situation with mobile phones requires fixing as well). It is not arguable that people need to be able to talk to a box that makes them a coffee or turns on a light. I think that most people would not choose the IoT device if they really understood how it works.

The majority of users are not tech aware security engineers. The majority of users (myself included) don't want to spend hours of our lives effectively specializing in android/ios under the hood design, and/or browsing shady blogs and forums looking for ways to root our phones.

Don't underestimate the domain knowledge that you've acquired, and the amount necessary to root a phone, let alone take control of linux embedded in a television. It's about more than just not knowing that we're being spied on. It simply isn't efficient to expect so many people, who have already specialized according to their professions and interests, to also take on this level of domain specific knowledge.

I agree -- people shouldn't have to learn all of that. If the system were designed better, then there would be no need. Right now, it's open season on people who don't understand how things work (and even on many people who do understand how things work). So the system needs fixing.

Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are. (Dietary dangers, sedentary lifestyle, financial irresponsibilities, etc)

That doesn't make them less bad, or less concerning overall.

If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer protection laws, and other such things would never have happened.

> Most people don't realize how bad all sorts of things in their life are.

I'd say that most people are regularly bombarded by all these issues in the medias. If they still don't realize, then this is because they actively filter them out.

> If you think things in the world should only change because of popular opinion & sales, then things like emancipation, environmental protection, worker protection, consumer protection laws, and other such things would never have happened.

I never claimed that things shouldn't change, only that I very much doubt they will. It's on the opponents to Google/Apple, to convince the majority that there are real issues and that measures should be taken. That's how democracy works, right? And I don't see that happening in the near future. Privacy? We have nothing to hide. Low-level customizability? We only need something that just works. They are the popular answers on these issues that need to be countered.

I don't think it's only up the market competitors to Google/Apple.

The market doesn't necessarily select against negative side effects, like privacy or the environment. Shifts in these need to happen outside the market. Things like legislative protection about rights, environment, and privacy are going to come from minority demands to claim those rights, not from hoping for a majority market pressure against conveniences that sell well.

I wasn't talking about economic competitors, but opponents to Google/Apple in the political area (e.g. EFF), who may lobby for changes. Therefore my note about the democratic process. Minorities may make demands, but whether they pass or not does rest on the majority. Hence the need to sway popular opinion, which I don't see happening.

I tried to do this and just use my PS4 for apps, but my wife thoughtlessly accepted the TOS on the tv within 2 days.

We still don't use the apps on the tv though.

Disconnect it from your WiFi and change password. If you're not using the apps, there's no reason for it to be on your network, right?

I'm not sure that might be enough; it can still probably still "phone home" about when it's being used, what devices have been connected to it, etc. See if there's an option to factory reset it.

The problem with "smart" TVs is that infrequently there is no choice but to get those and try to minimize the damage. Despite all their advantages "dumb" TVs are getting less and less popular.

The TV still works if it's not connected to the internet. Just buy a smart TV, never connect it to the internet, and get third party streaming sticks instead.

I wouldn’t be surprised if at some point, the first time you turn on your new TV, you’re prompted with an unskippable “Create your Vizio account” screen or some such nastiness.

And that is the point when my entire foot will go through the screen.

I don't shop for TVs anymore. I buy really large monitors.

Like Android.

Can you not do this on Android now? IIRC it offers you the option to skip.

Vanilla Android does not require any accounts, and Google Play Services allow to skip account setup. However, it could be that some vendors have mandatory account setup in their crapware.

Just like rooting/reinstalling your phone, it's important to set it up properly right after you buy it - no excuses of trying out their gimmicky crapware, figuring it out later, etc. This way, you're well within the return window and won't be stuck with defective merchandise.

No, there's still plenty of them on the market; they're just marketed under the name "monitor" instead of "television".

Or a commerical display, for triple the price.

Are monitors the size of large televisions comparable in price?

Yes they are comparable in price. And in fact they are often a bit cheaper than the price of the "smart" TVs.

I have seen a 55" TV with none of that "smart" shit for ~$320

whereas its "smart" counterpart is $100-300 more depending on whether it's refurbished or new.

Smart TV's features are worth avoiding.

Smarts that plug into to a TV are always evolving faster than Smarts built into the TV.

or use a white listing firewall where your data only goes to approved companies. but as you dont or do know how they use the info - its best to desolder any antennas or network interfase.

We need a concentrated effort to move solutions like Ghostery and Ad Block Plus up the chain, from the browser in to the router. And we need to make it user friendly and sexy.

And for what it's worth, I don't like in Ghostery, a plugin I run to try and stem the tide of tracking, how many times it begs me to send usage data and create an account. That's literally the opposite of why I downloaded you, Ghostery.

Remove ghostery and install privacy badger instead https://www.eff.org/privacybadger

I rolled with the Badger for a while, but I've moved away from it and toward a more network wide approach. Can't install plugins on my devices, and I don't want thirteen different browsers on my tablet. And my Xbox is stuck with Internet Explo-- I mean Microsoft Edge -- so I need a more comprehensive solution. And this article only points out more reasons why that is becoming necessary.

But my stack is ugly and kludgy and not fit for regular human consumption. We need a comprehensive community effort to make it sexy and easy.

Maybe the pihole is for you, then? Certainly the price is right to try it.

https://pi-hole.net/

Pi-hole is absolutely the way to go. Not only for the ad-blocking, but for checking to see where your devices 'phone home' to (and optionally blocking that, too).

I've got it running in a Linux container on a Turris Omnia and it blocks over 90% of requests, with nothing to install on the devices.

Try umatrix. https://github.com/gorhill/uMatrix

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