Comment by SQL2219 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by SQL2219 | Hacker News Reader

Domestic, high volume production car with a timing chain, not timing belt. I've spent thousands of dollars at repair shops on timing belt replacements. A typical replacement will set you back $800-$1,000.

High volume production helps with finding parts when you need to repair, finding folks on Craigslist that are parting out cars etc.

In my county I have a huge tax advantage driving older cars (2002, 2009). I had to pay my annual personal property tax in Dec. and it was $140, I was able to check online what a friend of mine paid, and his tax was $1,400. He likes newer cars.

Stay away from digital dash do-dads. When electrical stuff goes bad, can be expensive to repair and difficult to trouble-shoot on your own.

The other cars to look at are the nerd-mobiles: older mini-vans, Crown Victoria, larger 4 door domestic cars that have a reputation for being uncool. You know the stereotype: older person with Crown Vic, one owner...

My opinion on Japanese cars: quality and reliability are probably 5% better, but sellers always over-reach and ask for a 50-80% higher price. So unless you find a smoking deal, steer clear.

Timing belt change is not that difficult, I've done 3 or 4 of them now. I look for cars with non-interference engines so if the belt breaks, I don't destroy my valves. The belt only needs to be changed every 60 - 100k miles (depending on manufacturer). If you get a car with ~100k, you may need to change it twice before your cylinders won't hold compression any longer.

Edit: I've had my timing belt changed at shops in the past, for a Toyota Corolla it cost me 300-400 bucks.

A Crown Vic? I know fuel is cheap in the US (compared to Europe, we're at $7 per gallon here in the Netherlands!) but when you drive a lot of miles I think a small Japanese car will save you a lot of fuel money.

I drove a '86 Subaru Justy for a couple of years. I got 47 MPG out of that thing, it never broke down and I sold it for the same amount I bought it for 3 years earlier.

Can you explain the benefits of a timing chain instead of a belt? Stumbled upon a Suzuki Liana while looking for cheap used cars and there was a large emphasis on the chain in the ad. Possibly related, a car rental business near my home has a Liana-only fleet.

Timing belts have to be changed around 100,000 miles, timing chains will usually last the lifetime of the car. That is an expensive repair, like $1,000.

To add a bit more info, most ICE engines are separated into "interference" and "non-interference", basically it's the shape of the piston heads and the valve clearance when the piston is in the top position and the valves are open.

If you have an "interference" engine and your timing belt/chain fails you smash your engine to pieces, if you have a non interference engine it just stops because the cylinders lose compression because the valves aren't being actuated.

Timing belts/chains can also damage ancillaries when they go, and as most timing belts tend to be external, they can fail and take alternator, water pump, fan, radiator, etc, with them when they catastrophically fail, a timing chain tends to be inside the engine block and when they fail one tends to be more lucky, but they can also puncture the block and cause fatal damage to the engine.

AFAIK nearly all modern consumer cars are non-interference engines, barring maybe some higher-end performance engine options in otherwise pedestrian cars.

Some excellent points. Timing chain vs. belt, property taxes (didn't think about that one!), depreciation, electric windows vs. manual, would other car-like 4-wheel vehicles be included? Etc., etc.

See, it's not a simple problem, is it?

Yes, a good approach is to look up tax and insurance rates and then look for cars with rates you can stomach. There are lots of hilariously cheap big engine cars in my area because of the additional cost. On the tax side, there may also be beneficial loopholes, like tax credit for vans and strangely enough SUVs for businesses. Basically the car itself is the last thing to consider. Saves you the heartbreak of discovering that your dream car comes with tender loving by the taxman.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com