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Comment by themistocle | Hacker News Reader

The only people I know who have an electric car own or have pre-ordered Teslas. They are all status symbols. I don’t know anyone who needs an electric car. Maybe the problem is just as much lack of demand as it is lack of big auto commitment?

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Most cars beyond the bare-bones econoboxes aren’t about needs. Nobody needs an electric car, but they can be really nice to own in various ways.

I agree. If you're buying anything more expensive than the $13k Nissan Versa, you're buying features you don't need. So saying people don't need an electric car so there's no point in buying them is kind of a silly statement.

I think you are vastly underestimating what some people use their vehicles for. Where I drove today would have totaled a Nissan Versa. Trucks and other utility vehicles have their place.

Yes, and the wide variety of all-electric trucks and utility vehicles on the market prove that your use case is a direct and unquestionable comparison to what we're talking about right now, which is vehicles that are directly comparable to a Tesla or Bolt or Volt or Leaf.

You know, I think the Prius is really underrated as a pickup truck.

Indeed, and that's why I was careful to say "most." There certainly are legitimate needs for fancier vehicles. But I'd guess 95% of personal vehicles purchases go beyond what the buyer needs. Which is totally fine!

No need for me to quibble with your sentiment. The question is: if they don't solve a problem, why buy one? Prius offered people clean hands, and not much more. When gas is cheap the price of fuel isn't a big motivator, and Detroit is happy to churn out SUVs. So unless the state changes current market conditions I see no reason why people would choose to buy these electric cars.

They are super fun to drive, and never having to go to the gas station is nice.

I think 400,000 model 3 reservation holders paying $1,000 site unseen for a car they may not get for years demonstrates some demand.

But it demonstrates less demand than 400,000 people buying actual cars for their sticker price. $1000 is pocket change for the buyers of new cars and how many of those in the long run take delivery of a vehicle remains to be seen, plenty of people give up their slot once the time arrives to pay up the remainder.

I have an electric car and I know many people have electric cars. Each have their own motivations, for some people it is to save on gas. Others for carpool access, while still others are for environmental reasons. I doubt Nissan Leaf is a great status symbol

For sure. I see a lot of leafs around town and around the neighborhood. Its an unapologetic econobox. No problem with that. If I had to drive 101 upstream everyday, I'd go get a cheap used leaf in a heartbeat.

A friend had a Bolt and likes it a lot. Of course lots of Teslas around, too. Tesla has range, and is stylish. Bolt has range. Leaf goes from point A to B for a modest subset of points.

> Leaf goes from point A to B for a modest subset of points

That could be great for some people, but for more people a 10-year old Toyota Corolla would also be great. That's the problem, there isn't a compelling reason beyond interest in new technology or eco-sensibility to buy one of these cars.

I came very close to a Bolt for these reasons. My local power generator offered a $75 discount on the charger, plus free charging for the car on weekends. That's enormous: I could charge on weekends and drive 238 miles for free during the week. As a local commute or grocery getter, it's hard to beat free miles.

> free charging for the car on weekends

Interesting. Made me think of how now in Australia we have so much solar installed that wholesale electric spot pricing can go $10k+/MWh negative during some parts of the day. Wondering if one day they'll be willing to pay consumer electric sinks... EV charging is perfect.

Yes, any place with a lot of solar (daytime) loves having electric cars plugged in during the day, and any place with a lot of wind (which often blows strongest at night) loves having electric cars plugged in at night.

And if the car has a big battery and doesn't need to charge to full all of the time, you can use solar or wind predictions to choose when to charge.

And with some "smart grid" upgrades that are proposed, a busy electric grid could even "borrow" power from that big battery of a sitting car (with nowhere else to be) in periods of high demand and then repay what it borrowed, plus "interest" once demand drops.

> Wondering if one day they'll be willing to pay consumer electric sinks

Yes.

https://i.imgur.com/d3JBn9t.png

https://electrek.co/2017/02/03/tesla-controllable-charge-loa...

I have a plug-in hybrid (Toyota Prius Prime) which may not exactly count (though if the Volt does...), but here in Portland OR I see a huge number of Nissan Leaf-s. They can be bought used for a song, making them an ideal in-town car.

that isn't true for a year. leafs with 3+ years still sell for 7-10k. it's been a while you can't find them for a song

Where do you live? I see plenty of Volts and Bolts and Leafs where I live.

I've seen lots of Bolts in Silicon Valley in the past few months, far more than Model 3s in fact. And if you just stuff their seats with memory foam, they're quite comfortable to drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dgxWTOnVn8

but I await the Camaro/Mustang/Challenger equivalent electric car at roughly the same price point before I'll switch. The acceleration is just too useful for highway merges and other assorted road nonsense that's increasingly my daily commute experience.

The Model 3 is about as fast as a BMW 340i, and probably similar to a V6 Mustang or Camaro.

I drive a Prius and I'm rarely able to use its full power on a highway merge because I'm stuck behind slowpokes who think it's reasonable to merge at 40mph. If I owned a Mustang I'd be constantly frustrated at never being able to use it to its full potential.

Sure, that's on par with base $25K Camaros/Mustangs. It's not on par with the sort of Camaro/Mustang one can procure for ~$50k or the same price as a Model 3 that isn't barebones (and I just tried to config one on Tesla's web site and alas you can't so I can't give an exact number here).

For ~$50K, ICE sports cars are sub 4 seconds. That said, it is on par with low-end sport coupes so I see some of the appeal. It's just not appealing to me.

I'm with you. I'm a car nut, and I'd love a bare-bones performance EV. The instant torque sounds amazing.

Just give me something that's affordable, reliable, as light as possible and all-weather capable. It's fine to cut corners on interior materials and gadgets. Keep the electric windows, just give me the torque!

... that's what the Bolt and Model 3 are.

Reliable might be an open question, and something 2-3 times the price of a Corolla or Civic is affordable to a very particular demographic.

We've already had plenty of pointless discussions about the word "affordable" on HN. If you want to cast aspersions on "a very particular demographic", be my guest.

And this is why I listen to car people about cars, not techies. I drove a Bolt, I like the Bolt, but it's no sports car. To put this into perspective, do you make your SW/HW decisions based on the suggested content from Twitter/Facebook?

Did you try its Sports mode?

Indeed I did. I like the Bolt. If I lived in a city, I'd probably buy one right now. But sport mode != sports car. Just like Elon Musk != Skunk Musk...

The person I responded to did not ask for a sports car.

Yes he did, apparently you didn't read the bit about wanting the torque, which electric cars have from 0-20, and then peter out (except Teslas).

For a mainstream electric car, the Bolt is exceptionally good in driving more like a 2009ish Rav4 than a 2017ish Kia Soul, but it's no sports car, even in sports mode. But in a world where people think a Scion FRS is a sports car, I can understand the confusion.

> I don’t know anyone who needs an electric car

I imagine you live in the USA where gas is insanely cheap? think about people paying > $6USD/gallon.

The article is about US Electric Car Sales, US gas prices are therefore assumed.

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