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Comment by sniperjzp | Hacker News Reader

> The govt blocking the access of similar foreign apps (Whatsapp, Skype etc.) to the Chinese people has some role to play in the popularity of it.

This is not accurate. Along with WeChat and QQ, people can freely use Skype and MSN messenger in China. The success behind WeChat and QQ relies on their rich features, fast iterations, etc.

I still remember that during the 360 vs Tencent event, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_v._Tencent, a lot of people switched to Skype as their communication tool to against the company Tencent, but not long after that people switched back to WeChat and QQ. It's simply because WeChat and QQ are easier to use.

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> This is not accurate. Along with WeChat and QQ, people can freely use Skype and MSN messenger in China. The success behind WeChat and QQ relies on their rich features, fast iterations, etc.

Really?

I am not sure about Skype which is not even a strong contender anymore in our mobile generation, but WhatsApp is definitely blocked by China[1]. And MSN was dead long ago.

[1]: https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/whatsapp-blocked-in-china/

WhatsApp was only started to be blocked recently (last year) when WeChat was already way ahead of WhatsApp in the market. WeChat's success was not due to lack of contender

Fair enough, but does WhatsApp put out any market in China? The strategy is a completely different approach. WhatsApp simply building 1 product for the entire globe where WeChat just focus on 1 monoculture.

Have WhatsApp spent effort to build "that product" to China, and they would fail on it.

And I don't see WhatsApp is super pissed that they lost this 1.3B market anyway.

And in a hindsight, it is probably better for WhatsApp to not build "that app" for China. Imagine spending all those resources, money into a product and simply turn off by China government overnight. It's a big loss for that investment.

TL;DR do not enter China if you haven't yet finished conquered the entire world.

I live in the Bay Area and I use both WhatsApp and WeChat and I would say WeChat is a significantly better product, with more features and better video/audio quality. When I visit China, WeChat is another order of magnitude more indispensable due to its great integration with all the other services (eg, mobile payment penetration through WeChat effectively 100%).

Hmm... I don't know, but my app is less heavyweight on said WhatsApp than a bloated WeChat. But that's my opinion.

When I send a message, why does it need to be so bloated. I just wanna send a message. Does being lightweight a feature too?

What's bloated about it?

From the UX point of view, it's pretty lightweight for most common operations. Goes into the app, finds the contact, sends message, done. There is virtually no difference between WeChat, WhatsApp, and Apple's own Messages. For many other operations that are less common, WeChat is easier to use and manage (e.g. sending emojis, voice memo, photos).

From an app size point of view, I just checked on my iPhone. WeChat takes up 157.3MB, whereas WhatsApp takes up 105.9MB. The difference seems minor (just a few photos).

WeChat's success is something I find... strange. I just thought uses don't want everything and the kitchen sink in the same app but we chat success story shows I'm wrong? I still don't get it.

I have that Facebook messenger even has draw over other apps permission on Android. I hate the pop up chat. Am I out of touch?

...I sense an oncoming existential crisis.

Being able to send money to people via chat app is pretty appealing to many people.

Also, there was a post on here highlighting Japanese web design and you might say it's also a kitchen sink approach. And then someone posted, or the article updated and added(I don't remember exactly) some nice links to show that the exact same design phenomenon exists in major websites in Taiwan, Korea, and China.

We might theorize that users in these particular markets might want everything but the kitchen sink in one app, or one website. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but there's definitely some indicators.

Would be very interesting if it's a case of actual rejection of western style minimalistic designs, rather than something like it being all they've known and thus have simply gotten used to.

What's bloated about it?

Let see... - Why do I care about reading someone's life moment on an IM? WhatsApp also tried this and another reason I think it is now heading to the "dark side" - Why do I said... Request a Didi on an IM ? - Why would I care to use it to pay for something? I just want to message someone. - Why do I even care about these features? I just want to message someone... - In fact, why do I care about so much eye-killing gifs/emoji

An IM is an IM. But then I grew up in the western world, so my opinions might not apply to everyone. But I am sure as hell share someone's opinion on this.

Is it bloated? Hell yeah, can it still make a case that Chinese general population would prefer bloated single-app? Sure, but that doesn't mean I like it.

>Why do I even care about these features? I just want to message someone...

You care that the other person will be on it too. But why will they be on it？

Mass adoption isnt just about what you want, its about what other people on the same service want as well. It has to offer a superset of your wants, her wants, his wants, etc or you will love it, but they will go elsewhere. Its not all about you. Having everyone on it is THE killer feature.

> It has to offer a superset of your wants, her wants, his wants, etc or you will love it, but they will go elsewhere

So that's bloated then ?

Personally I don't think it's too bloated. However, its an absolute storage hog ~ My WeChat is taking up 2.4gig of storage space. I guess thats the issue of audio messages alongside the ability to send full-quality images.

My wife is Chinese to I use WeChat a fair bit. I only use it for messaging and calling, so can’t comment on the other features, but for what I use it seems fast, stable and easy to use.

How do you distinguish between featureful and bloated? What are the criteria you would use to tell one from the other?

whatsapp calls are blocked or unusable already for years

trust me I tried when I lived there, messages work but forget about video and audio, only international service which worked was Skype but even that fails most of the time, so your option are obscure messengers and less known webrtc sites

Used Skype yesterday.

Skype is used a lot by businesses.

When Skype introduced end-to-end encryption the government tried to block it, but the backlash from businesses in China was so big they had to unblock it.

Skype has a tailored edition http://skype.gmw.cn

Skype is blocked I guess? MSN is long dead. FB Messenger/WhatsApp or any Google related products aren't available, due to the great great Firewall.

WeChat is great, but pretend there is no protectionism around it is also disingenuous.

Disclaimer: Chinese.

Well, I think it's not just simply "protectionism", but because the Chinese government really want to enforce censorship on all digital products used by people living in China.

When Google refuse to follow that, they are just simply not allowed. I have seen foreign companies built products in China but they all have to agree to these censorship laws.

Disclaimer: Chinese too. :-)

> not long after that people switched back to WeChat and QQ. It's simply because WeChat and QQ are easier to use.

That is not completely right. People switch back because most of their contacts are using QQ and WeChat.

And that's actually why people keep using Tencent product -- because all your friends are using it, your mom using it, your boss using it, so you have to. In fact, I think most of those IM's gaining their user base because of this.

Also, encouraging Chinese people using domestic services is good for government, as they had better control of those services. So they did, by selectively making foreign services unstable.

Censorship is not just a mean of control, it's also a business: Government wants control, company wants money, so they formed an alliance to get what they want.

> And that's actually why people keep using Tencent product -- because all your friends are using it, your mom using it, your boss using it, so you have to. In fact, I think most of those IM's gaining their user base because of this.

Is it cultural? I use signal. Most of my contacts don't use signal. I've forced the people I talk to the most to get signal. For everyone else, I'll use WhatsApp or just text. I don't need everyone to use something for me to use that thing. In fact, the day my mum joins Snapchat will be the day I'll uninstall it for good.

Maybe cultural related, but I don't really know.

In China, we have a some sort of social phenomenon called "Herd behavior"[0], simply put: If something is popular in crowd, then it tend to be more popular.

Also, I found that most Chinese people are lack of motion of trying something new: If something works, then we'll keep using it and stop worrying about it until it breaks.

> I've forced the people I talk to the most to get signal.

In China, this hardly works, because people you try to convincing may also binded to WeChat by their contacts. So a easier choice for them is just to silently ditch you.

(Of course, dad and mom are more likely to stick with whatever chat service you're using, so :DDDD)

BTW: There are no encrypted chat service in China, and Chinese people don't care too much of their privacy (By western standard).

So if you tell them: We should not let government listening our conversations, let's use Signal! You will usually get replies like: Yes, just let them listen, I have nothing to hide. And keep using WeChat.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior#Everyday_decisio...

I hadn't realized that QQ and WeChat are part of Tencent, but are part of different divisions. It would be interesting to know how collaborative or rivalrous the relation between them is.

QQ was a desktop focused app and WeChat was a ground up write of messaging for mobile. Competing against themselves is pretty brilliant IMO, it creates alternatives for the users but still allows their company to own the market.

Interesting YC blog about Tencent and WeChat. [1]

1. http://blog.ycombinator.com/lessons-from-wechat/

MSN has been dead for years, how can people in China freely use it?

Probably because it's dead and unencrypted to concern the Chinese government. I wonder if you can use Pidgin with OTR encryption on top of MSN for subversive conversations.

MSN shall rise again! dakka dakka

Skype video and audio it's crippled with speed to such extent it's unusable for most of the time

so yeah, technically you are correct, it's not blocked, it just doesn't work which is de facto same thing for end user deciding what app to use

lived in China for many years, it was frustrating I could not talk with my family abroad, apparently too dangerous for Chinese Gov to let me talk with my parents and I am not gonna ask people outside China to install spyware like QQ or WeChat. the saddest part it's unless you wanna completely cut the ties you still need to keep it installed like my wife does (I cut the ties with non VPN folks), any other reasonable option would be freezing and unfreezing on demand which kinda ruins messaging experience and might as well use email

We are talking about WeChat, not "WeChat and QQ". Don't misleading others.

QQ vs (Whatsapp, Skype, MSN messager, etc)

WeChat vs (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc)

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