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Comment by codefined | Hacker News Reader

The fact there are no pads or helmets actually makes Rugby safer. In American Football people rush into each other at almost full speed, which can lead to serious brain damage. In Rugby, if you were to rush into each other at that sort of speed you would become seriously injured, so brain damage isn't as prevalent.

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>> The fact there are no pads or helmets actually makes Rugby safer.

This is oft-cited but before helmets, NFL players were dying at a pretty rapid pace [0], and this is before advanced strength and conditioning.

NFL players rush into each other at full speed knowing the risks. Why would that change if you removed protective padding that has been proven to do very little?

[0]: One such article on the topic: https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/19-football-players-died-in-...

Yes, Teddy Roosevelt is credited for saving football. In 1904, there were 18 deaths in college football alone, and there weren't that many colleges and not that many games.

http://www.history.com/news/how-teddy-roosevelt-saved-footba...

It's the hard helmets vs leather that's the the issue, the hard helmet lets players use their head as a weapon.

Injuries were also caused by a lot of plays that are illegal today - flying wedges and various dirty blocks (clipping, chop blocks).

"In American Football people rush into each other at almost full speed"

300lbs, running 5seconds for 40 yard, 2% bodyfat -- straight at you -- head down -- helmet first. Oh yeah. They trained on smashing into bags for this for 10 years.

Very few players that big are that fast or that trim.

Lots are a bit faster and around 230 or 250 lbs though.

It's true that NFL players suffer enormous head injuries, but let's not be hyperbolic. No one in the NFL is anywhere near 2% body fat; people are not trying to spear other people head first (there are rules explicitly banning this as well as any intentional helmet to helmet contact); most players are well under 300 lbs; most hits aren't occurring anywhere near full speed etc.

Many of the more serious impacts occur at high speeds, some at full speed. Special teams (kickoff, punt return, etc) are particularly bad for this. There are players on the payroll that are kept for just this purpose.

Player positions with more high speed impacts aren't necessarily linked to greater lifetime CTE risks because they might have fewer total impacts during their career. Linemen might even be worse off with many more "lesser" impacts. The big high speed hits from a safety draw attention, but they're pretty infrequent. A lineman is pretty much guaranteed a consistent head impact every play.

https://www.inverse.com/article/37934-nfl-funded-study-brain...

All of these points ignore the fact that the main source of the issue is the repeated, small blows to the head. Larger blows have a higher tendency to be noticed and treated. Smaller, continuous blows happen dozens of times a game for a lineman.

>people are not trying to spear other people head first (there are rules explicitly banning this as well as any intentional helmet to helmet contact)

Really? Because someone did just that in the AFC championship a week ago in order to (successfully) take out Rob Gronkowski.

>...take out Rob Gronkowski.

Context https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwALEoMUHrk.

It happens and some people are malicious, but he was penalized and it was considered a dirty hit. The point is that is the only hit of it's type that was seen during the game which contained thousands of collisions.

You can't really live at 2% bodyfat. Even top bodybuilders "only" get down to like 4-5% for competitions. Plus you'll be weak and small. I wouldn't be surprised if 300 lb football players are more like 20%.

>2% bodyfat

Do NFL athletes really have 2% bodyfat? That's elite bodybuilding physique, and only sustained temporarily for competition. I find it hard to believe that football players can compete with so little fat.

Well. probably more injuries, but much less serious. American Football, if you get hurt, you get hurt really bad

Worse - you get hurt irreversibly, sometimes mortally, very slowly over time. A broken leg is often the least of your problems compared to multiple concussions or the cumulative effects of CTE.

Removing helmets in football without removing almost all forms of contact will likely lead to deaths, which would hard to describe as "much less serious" than brain damage.

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