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Comment by nostromo | Hacker News Reader

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I'll share mine.

I was very skeptical about the notches. But after a month of use, I find that I don't notice the missing space at all.

Most often, it really does feel like the entire screen is being used. It's almost an optical illusion.

My two minor issues with the X are: 1) the glass back makes it very slippery! (It slides off the arm rests on my couch no matter how well I place it.) 2) The protruding camera on the back is very noticable. I wish Apple would make a flat-backed phone again. When I set my phone on a flat surface, it shouldn't wobble.

Overall I was very skeptical of the X for a lot of reasons... but it's by far the best phone I've ever used. (And it better be at this price!)

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The Apple branded silicone case fixes both your issues and looks pretty nice too.

I used to be a no case person, but I got one for the X because I had the same issues you did.

I can't stand the silicone cases. They are grippy (good) but are very difficult to get in/out of my pants pocket (bad). My wife likes hers, but it goes in a purse so she doesn't experience the drawback frequently.

I've been using the Apple leather cases for my last two phones (including the X). They aren't as grippy as the silicone cases, and they cost more, but I find they feel better in the hand and don't have the "stuck to my pocket" problem.

I used to be a "no case" person as well. I dropped my 3GS a half dozen times and it just got dinged up corners. Same with a Lumia after that. I dropped my Nexus 6 about 5 inches and the screen shattered. Started using cases after that.

I too prefer the leather cases, but mine started breaking and the plastic to which the leather is bonded made for a very sharp edge. I cut my hand a couple of times just trying to get the phone out of my pocket. Too expensive to easily justify a replacement.

The leather cases don't stand up well to sweat, especially if you have heavy salt content in your sweat (I've had both style cases, the leather ones look pretty bad quickly)

Personally I’m a fan of the Otterbox cases, especially Symmetry. They don’t suffer from the pure silicone case resistance to sliding into pockets but they do subtly improve grip and would seem to offer pretty solid protection.

Apple expects you to use a case, preferably their silicone or leather ones.

Put them on and you'll see how the back suddenly becomes perfectly flat and non slippery. The notch helps in securing the case. The changing shape of the notch also means that cases don't transfer between iPhone models.

I guarantee Jony uses a case.

If it requires a case to not be a nuisance why isn't the case included? Why is the phone made of glass if nobody is ever going to see it? Why go to the lengths to make it thinner than the camera just to add a case? It's just really sloppy and antithetical to what I appreciate(d?) about Apple's devices.

I still wish there was a smaller iPhone that I could operate one-handed without the hacky home button tap to reach the top of the screen. How does that work on the X without the home button?

Because there are hundreds of options to choose from?

I don't choose Apple for options. I choose Apple for devices that work and get out of my way. Customization is not always a feature. This is a similar philosophy to sane defaults in software.

From my perspective the aftermarket cell phone case fixes a flaw in the design.

Reachability on an x is done by swiping down the bottom edge of the screen, and it really does feel a lot more natural than the double-tap of the older iPhones.

Because there is a million different ones.

It’s designed for a case because it’s an additional revenue source.

The sales reps can push for warranty or a case. Either way a win-win for Apple shareholders.

> why isn't the case included

Same as with the wireless charger and wireless earbuds, they are advertised as part of the iphone innovative features but sold separately, so that they can advertise the whole line as "starting from $699"; meanwhile the whole iphone experience actually starts just shy of a thousand dollars.

> I still wish there was a smaller iPhone

me too, me too. holding tight to the 5s for now, I'm not gonna get a pouch for these non-pocketable monstrosities.

> Why is the phone made of glass if nobody is ever going to see it?

For being a radio frequency transparent, premium material?

But why do I care if it is premium if I never see it? Presumably the case material is RF transparent too?

> I still wish there was a smaller iPhone

I upgraded to an X from a 5. The screen real estate really allowed me to not to turn on my computer at some nights, which I consider as a plus. I just read what I want to read, and reply a bunch of e-mails, then put it off.

> Why is the phone made of glass if nobody is ever going to see it?

Highly likely unrelated, but it reminds me of Steve Jobs's biography where he talks about the important lesson from his dad about making sure every aspect of your work is done with care throughout. Even the parts people won't see.

Maybe. That lesson would lead me to say there should not be a camera blister because a phone that wobbles on a table wa snot made with care.

Apple does not expect you to use a case, though they will certainly sell you one. Virtually no Apple promotional media features people using iPhones in cases (they are always au naturale), and Jony Ive certainly does not use one.

The cases Apple sells you feel like they're part of the phone after you put them on. My phone feels naked without it. And I was a hardcore case hater for the longest time. Now I've seen the light, Apple engineered their cases with every bit as much care as they did the phone. I can see why they wouldn't put one on in the marketing materials, but trust me they really do go together.

Check out the left edge of your iPhone X. Look at the ugly cutout for the mute toggle, right above the plastic buttons they added to pad out the phone's volume buttons so that they're actually usable in a case. If "in case" was the design spec for the iPhone, I think Apple could do better here.

I have a 7 Plus, but mine has a cutout as well for the mute toggle that makes it more difficult to use. I consider this a feature, when I went without a case, one of my main gripes was that I could never control the state of the mute toggle. Now it never switches on or off accidentally while the phone is in my toggle.

Just because they decided "if you insist on using a case, we built you the best case" (and I agree, and I use the case; but I also used cases from InCase before Apple started making cases), that doesn't mean they intend you to use a case.

Their leather cases will help keep them on your armrest, too, because they peel into a tacky flaky mess within two months. Very cheap and nasty.

This hasn’t been my experience, I’ve only spent the money for a leather case once (always used to go caseless) but I’ve had this case for more than a year and It’s held up beautifully.

I’ve noticed that their silicone cases peel as you’ve described, but I’ve had great luck with the leather case even after years of abuse, drops, and getting it damp.

> I guarantee Jony uses a case.

Doubt it. For one, he can just get a new iPhone if his breaks, and two, he takes a lot of pride in his work. He's not going to go and cover it up.

> The notch helps in securing the case.

"The notch" usually refers to the screen cutout for sensors at the top of the iPhone X screen, which has no relevance to the case. Do you mean the camera bump?

The iPhone cases from Apple would grip the same without the camera bump and corresponding case cutout. The sides of the apple cases wrap around all four edges of the phone, with only a partial cutout for speakers, microphone, and lightning port at the bottom. The edges of the case hold it very securely. It's hard to get the phone out because the edges grip so tightly.

> The changing shape of the notch also means that cases don't transfer between iPhone models.

The rest of the dimensions also change. If the iPhone 7 and 8 had the camera in the exact same spot, the cases still wouldn't be interchangeable. Not with a good fit on each phone at least.

> I guarantee Jony uses a case.

I bet he doesn't. People use cases to protect their phones. Ive could break a hundred phones and not feel any pain from replacing them.

Both of your issues can be solved with a case. I don’t like cases either, but most people use them, and if the camera was flush with the back of the phone, then all of those peoples’ cameras would be recessed into a hole, which is probably a bad thing.

I don't really buy that recessed into a hole argument. I bet that case manufacturers would have no trouble modifying their designs to accommodate it. Like a gradient of thickness leading to the area around the camera, for example.

That’s not what happened though. With the older iPhones (with flat cameras), the flash would actually reflect off cases. It happened to me often enough. you can find examples of this in a web search.

I don’t remember anyone complaining about a recessed camera with the iPhone 4 bumper case.

So yeh, I don’t buy the parent’s argument either.

https://images.anandtech.com/doci/3794/iPhone4-3441.jpg

People don’t use bumper cases anymore, though.

>I wish Apple would make a flat-backed phone again. When I set my phone on a flat surface, it shouldn't wobble.

Well, the main issue is the wobble, but a flatness isn't necessarily the only solution. I wonder if they could use a less-conventional design, perhaps a contoured back with a "fatter" top and bottom that would allow it to rest horizontally, while improving balance and hand-feel. That's a pretty serious camera in the phone, they're doing plenty with the space they're using, and I bet they could cram some more fun components with a fatter bottom.

The people suggesting to buy a case are probably the same people defending the audio jack removal. Imagine how much more battery they could fit in if the phone was a bit thicker.

The other way to look at it is that the phones need to be thinner to make them a reasonable size with a case on them. Cases are a consumable--mine has a ton of dings in it that otherwise the iPhone itself would've absorbed.

Not to mention, cases are for personalization.

Or you could just not build the whole damn thing out of glass. Steel or carbon fiber can be light and thin, without the propensity to shatter into smithereens.

Most phones are a lot more durable than people seem to think, or maybe they're too lazy to take care of their expensive devices. Sure, my Moto X has a couple of battle scars, but nothing is broken.

Patina is cool and adds character.

But it lowers resale value. People don't like patina on their cars, either.

There's a lot more to life than resale value.

Because I'm so scared of getting cracked screens from accidentally dropping my phone, I'll usually get a heavy-duty case (I like the tech21 cases) to protect my phone. This pretty much nullifies anything about the aesthetics of the phone. But having a phone I don't need to worry about is more important to me than how it looks. I'm curious why others are willing to risk it after spending so much money on their phones.

My iPhone X screen cracked falling out of my car door onto concrete. 80 days of ownership in. AppleCare FTW. I’ve never had an iPhone display crack so easily.

My glass screen didn’t crack but it did cause the OLED to break. https://imgur.com/a/mIq13

AppleCare Plus FTW, indeed.

I really would prefer not to pay extra hundreds of dollars just so that I don't need to choose the cheap option for repair in order to keep my warranty. But it is what it is.

I certainly understand. As a counter point and a bit of the (probably faulty) logic for why i choose no case + AppleCare: I’ve managed to break screens in cases in prior iphones. I’ve used local screen replacement shops and have been totally unimpressed with the quality of replacement i.e. I’m convinced i did not receive a remotely comparable screen to Apple’s OEM. I use my phone all day every day for work. I keep my phone in my jeans pocket and really prefer the no-case slim fit. Cheap cases tend to last me 6 months a pop before getting ratty looking, so i can either spend $50 on a nice Otterbox or other quality case or $15*4 for a new cheap case every so often.

Apple care, expensive though it may be, gets me a few mulligans while also providing broader coverage against other unknown damage or warranty issues, something even the nicest Otterbox style cases won’t afford me. It’s all a trade off. My preference is expensive but I historically break a screen every year, why not plan accordingly.

I'm curious about the situations that cause you to drop your phone. When does it happen?

I don't want to be rude, I simply have a hard time understanding how careless people can be with their expensive devices. I'm not specifically accusing you of being careless, but I don't understand how people can drop their phones all the time.

My Moto X has been dropped one time, because I accidentally put it behind a stupid strap on my pants, rather than in the pocket. I cut that strap off afterwards, because that's just a really shitty idea to put a strap right on front of a pocket.

Every time I've smashed my screen is when alcohol is in play.

But I can't help but feel like people make it out to be a bigger deal than it is... you can get it fixed third-party for pretty cheap.

I would expect someone with your train of thought to especially want to buy a case. I'm curious why you take the risk? There are circumstances beyond your control and ability to predict sometimes. Ever mind your own business on the street, and then people in a rush violently crash into you? In order to break your fall, you have to let go of your phone and it falls, and those who made you fall are long gone? Yeah, it hasn't happened to me either. The point is that there are situations you can't predict, and besides that, you can't always be perfect either. I'm certainly not claiming to be perfect, hence the case.

To be blunt, I have functional fingers and situational awareness. I actually hold on to my phone, and if I need to look at it, I don't stand around randomly in the middle of a path where people need to move through. If I don't think I can use my phone safely, I wait.

That probably sounds a little bit sanctimonious, but it's the truth.

I have broken exactly one phone in my entire phone-owning life (since 2002), I've had 6 phones during this time, 4 feature phones and 2 smartphones. So one accident in 16 years, and that was a Sony Ericsson Elm. It was actually what pushed me to finally get a smartphone, so maybe it was a net positive :-)

I've had zero accidents in my entire phone-owning life since 2004, including 3 smartphones. I still prefer the safety of cases. To me, you don't sound sanctimonious, you sound arrogant and risk-seeking. To each their own, I guess. I think cases are worth it and don't care about any of the alleged negatives. Others think differently.

If you knew me, you wouldn't call me risk-seeking, at least not in any large capacity.

Arrogant maybe, but that's because I'm usually right about most things ;-)

That's weird cause I actually find the X the grippiest iPhone I've had yet. My biggest complaint about the iPhone 6-7 was that it would slip out of my hand all the time. But with the X, I can even hold it at an angle with three fingers and it grips to my fingers. I don't know how, or why my experience is so different, but it's one of my favourite things about it.

It's not like I love the notch, but I'd rather have it than a smaller screen or no sensors, which are the two only other options. It's not a piece of missing screen, it's two bonus bits of screen (and I like the approach of just simplifying the status bar and jamming it in there).

This is one thing I absolutely don't understand. Phone makers should be sued to oblivion (and I'm saying this someone who is not fond of the litigation culture of US in general) for making a portable device that is essentially designed for failure .. a fall. A phone that is meant to be held for hours, to be placed in all sorts of surface, giving it a slippery back is willful negligence for me.

But it's no nice looking they would say while buying a cover to promptly cover it the moment they unbox it. The idiocy of modern day smartphone culture boggles my mind. Ironic that it reminds me of apple's 1984 commercial in a bad way.

Quite literally any smartphone on the market would break if it fell. Are you suggesting that every phone manufacturer should be sued?

Wat

I've dropped plenty of phones plenty of times and they've never broken.

What's so infuriating about this is that it seems like they go out of their way to make the back of the phone slippery. The metal back of the iPhone 6 and 6s is like teflon and the glass on the X is almost as slippery. Why? I have an old iPhone 4 sitting on the shelf that I occasionally pickup just to marvel at how it sticks in your hand. They proved it could be done years ago.

I don't find the glass back on the X to be very slippery at all in hand. My fingers stick to it quite well. It does slide on furniture, but in hand it feels pretty secure, especially relative to older iPhones. The 4 was easier to hold because it was just so small.

If they design a thin phone that requires a case, anyone can choose any case they wish to make the phone look any way they wish, and to make it as resistant to falls as they wish.

If they make the phone thicker (a "built in" case, if you will) a consumer's choice is actually restricted. Then there is of course that 10% of people who won't actually use a case served also.

Why would you sue someone for offering a breakable product? If people don't want it, they don't have to buy it. Seems like a pretty bad precedent to set.

In England the sale of goods act specifies that products should be “sufficiently durable”. Personally I feel that dropping a phone from a few feet and having to replace the glass screen fails that test

Would you sue a wine glass maker too? A much more fragile handheld object, but expressly designed also to be handled by drunk people?

I don't use a case for mine and have had it slide out of my pocket while driving, had to fish it out of the crack between my seat and the center console. This was with normal pants too. To be fair my old iPhone7 had the same problem, but it still amazes me they could design it to be _that_ slick.

Phones are of course more slippery than ever as they've grown and slimmed and've developed a whole touch screen on one side.

But I also wonder what material you'd manufacture right onto a phone that doesn't just cheapen it to most people, like the lame helmet they give you when you rent a motorcycle. A cool brushed metal feel vs the cracking rubber and yellowing rubber on my girlfriend's cheap android.

Either way I'm not sure why one wouldn't put it in a case. It's like 10 years too late for anyone to be marveling at it.

You need a case, fixes both those issues.

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