"...people have the right to say whatever they want and be as direct as they want. And if other people don’t like that, it’s their fault for getting offended."
Hear hear.
Hear hear.
Guess which of them lives by the mantra of being 'as direct as they want'?
edited...
I live in a culture where being direct is somewhat frowned upon. Not only "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything" but sometimes "if you don't have anything nice to say, make something up". People avoid confronting each other with what they think and want to the point where they'll express the exact opposite, at best adding subtle, passive-aggressive hints as to what they really mean and using irony to avoid responsibility. I guess the burden of confronting people is understood as higher than the burden of constantly having to second guess what at surface seems sincere, to a greater degree than in other, more "direct" cultures.
This can be very excluding to people who didn't grow up here. People that travel here briefly will probably get the impression that we are very nice and welcoming, but if you stay here for long you'll probably find the occasional direct asshole refreshingly simple to dismiss as just that.
That's not to say that being direct is inherently better than being indirect. Particularly the interpretation of "direct" that boils down to "I'll say whatever I want the moment I think of it even though I know that no one wants to hear it". But it's a misinterpretation, really. If I am a considerate person, being direct will reflect that. Before I comment on your shoes I will consider that you probably like them yourself and that it's not very important to me to express that I don't. If you asked me what I thought of them and I didn't tell you what I think, I would consider that rude.
You’re intellectually lazy and oversimplifying a complex issue. You likely either lack social awareness or have a total lack of understanding of how minorities are bullied and made to feel worthless (because your views are so bland as to cause no offense, and you are not a member of any minority).
Let's try.
I think you should improve your grammar.
[ :) ]
And of course, it's good that this is open for everyone to see.
If you think my views are "bland", you haven't got a clue, and of course, you are a bully.
Good chat. Cheers.
Thing is, being open / honest sometimes triggers emotion and does not stimulate discussion or progress.
My experience (source: being Dutch / Swiss-German) is that it really really matters not only what is being said or even how true it is, a very important aspect is what / how the receiver interprets the message. When I am with my Dutch (Amsterdammer) family and friends, we are direct in a very specific way about specific subjects. Being with my Swiss-German family and friends we are too: but on different subjects and in different wording.
Just like humor translates lousy, so do nuance and social etiquettes.
I agree there are often situation where it would be helpful if people would be more direct.
However I think there are situations where it’s better to either avoid the issue entirely, or take a less direct approach. That might be the case with those who have radically different views to us, or are members of a minority where taking a direct approach might be misinterpreted as overly agressive, or could make them feel otherwise unwelcome.
Hmm...
Do you even realize there is a difference?
To me it is actually kind of ironic that the continual equating of "plain truth, even if it causes offense" with "intending to cause harm by intensional bullying masquerading as being truthful" has "progressed" [sic] so far as that people who hold these views truly can't tell the difference any longer.
I just don’t think it’s helpful, or advances the discussion to say them the way I did (or at all). I said them that way to illustrate a point.
You’ve failed to grasp this point. Being direct is good sometimes, but not always. And sometimes being “direct” is used to mask bullying behavior.
The “google manifesto” is one such example. I’d guess you consider it “being direct”?
I realize that it can be hard to bracket out one's reactive emotions when the internet is doing its provocation thing, but we need everyone here to try. Our common interest in having a site that doesn't suck needs to take precedence over our annoyance at each other's ideological views.
Could you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16288896? Your comments are increasingly vandalizing this site, and it's dismaying.
That's a bannable attack on HN. I'm not going to ban you because the thread is about "directness". On HN, however, it is not ok to be a direct asshole, so would you please not post like this here?