Ask HN: I just got fired | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: I just got fired

I'm a contributor here but using a throwaway for obvious reasons.

I was fired without notice a few days ago. The initial shock and hurt have worn off, I think, but I am still in deep processing mode. I was very unhappy at this job, and I believe it became obvious to management. I was halfway out the door myself, actively interviewing at other companies, but getting rejected like this is still a blow. I wanted to leave on my own terms.

As I reflect on my experiences and the direction I want to head in, I was wondering if any of you all have been fired and have advice on how to cope in the coming days, months, years. I'm relatively young (29) and have a long career (I hope) ahead of me.

I've applied for UI, I've told a couple very close people (but not anyone else, I still don't know how to confront the shame and tell people in my circles). I'm going to hit the job search hard. But what else can I do to minimize the damage and maximize future success?

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Most people are focusing on career advice, but it sounds like you’re also looking for some psychological reassurance. In that case, the best advice I can give is to avoid letting this affect your view of yourself. It’s easy to forget that we are more than our careers or our jobs. How will you feel about this firing 50 years from now?

This is also why it’s inportant to have a balanced lifestyle. If the only focus of your life is your career, then getting fired is devastating. But if you have other things in your life — hobbies, friends, a relationship — you have those to fall back to when something goes wrong with work.

> This is also why it’s inportant to have a balanced lifestyle. If the only focus of your life is your career, then getting fired is devastating.

Amen. I made a concerted effort to round out my life outside of work because I've been so unhappy there--joined a sports league, made friends from lots of industries (not just tech), new relationship...these were quite hard given my introverted nature but man am I thankful I have them now. Thanks for your input.

A few thoughts:

Unless you were fired for misconduct, its usually better to say you were laid off. Its worth figuring out what information the company will give out. If you didn't leave on good terms, have a friend call and ask for employment verification. If it was a legitimate company based in the US, its likely they'll give dates of employment and nothing else.

Get some thoughts down in writing, especially what went wrong/what you could have done better. Its pretty common to be unhappy at a job and wanting to leave, so its good to figure out how to do that without making it too obvious.

Don't be shy about reaching out to people who still work at the company you left. It always feels more awkward to you than it really is.

By far the best thing you can do to minimize damage is get another job as soon as possible. It's really easy to get in a rut after a setback and get discouraged, procrastinate, then before you know it a few months have gone by and you have a 'gap' on your resume to explain.

It's tough, but remember that this exact situation happens to way more people than it seems. Its just someone nobody brings up so it seems rare. You'll get through it.

> have a friend call and ask for employment verification

One of the magic incantations I've heard of here is "is {X} eligible for rehire?"

It's worth throwing in to see what their response is.

I'm not sure I understand that, can someone elaborate?

> getting rejected like this is still a blow. I wanted to leave on my own terms.

Do you have any previous Managers/Superiors who can serve as a professional reference and vouch for your skills & expertise? Was there a previous position where you delivered superior work?

Do not lie, do not misrepresent your situation.

Be candid-- Tell them you we're fired out of the blue. But your job engagement level had likely suffered when you realized the role/company wasn't a good strategic fit.

Confidently add - 'My references will tell you that I'm a trustworthy, thoroughly professional, known as Top-Notch Developer who thrives on delivering out-of-the-box solutions for tough problems'.

*You'll be surprised to know some of the most intelligent/productive/impactful talent tend to get fired at least once in their career.

Manage your inner-game, move on!

First, go ahead and mourn... for a little while. A day, a week if you need to. Then be done. Time to move on.

Next thing: Look honestly at whether any of this was your fault. Was your work inadequate? Did you have conflicts with your co-workers? You need to be honest with yourself. And if there's something that you need to change going forward, think through how you're going to change things (for the sake of the long career that you still have ahead of you).

I've been laid off. It wasn't me. They killed the project, gave everybody two weeks pay instead of notice, and escorted us out the door. It was kind of a shock. I stopped somewhere on my way home and cried for a few minutes. Then I took the rest of the day off, then started working on job hunting.

You feel like this is going to ruin your career. It's not. It may make it somewhat more difficult to find the next job, but not impossible. After that, if you do decent work at that next job, nobody will ever care again about you getting fired from this one.

I was part of a layoff once. At first I was kind of in shock. As soon as I started walking out the building I actually felt happy and excited. I saw it as a new opportunity and beginning of a new adventure. I have no idea where I might end up. It's made me open my eyes and mind to moving to other cities, learning technologies I'm not familiar with, applying for and considering other positions and the types of companies I'm willing to work for and meet new people.

Look at it as an opportunity. A new adventure and be open minded. That's what I have done and am actually feeling much happier. Find something you want to do and no longer are miserable every day doing.

The only part I do not like is the interview process that many companies have developed for software engineers. It can be extremely stressful and frustrating, but I guess you have to play the game.

I remember that feeling! I opened my car windows, turned the radio on - it happened to be playing "Takin Care of Business" which was perfect! Turned it up and cruised around town for an hour, happy.

Take a deep breath. Everything is alright and you have a bright future ahead. Getting fired is same as you leaving the job, without having a offer in hand, discarding any emotional turbulence. Keep applying for jobs and very soon you'll get a job, you always desired for. I hope you have enough cash to keep you covered, spend money with prudence. And smile, things are gonna be great for you, very soon.

Getting fired from a bad gig is a blessing, especially if you've already been interviewing elsewhere.

If your company senses the vibe of disinterest, and especially if they think it's so serious that you're interviewing elsewhere, it's not entirely unusual for management to move toward a dismissal before the employee can quit. Like you, they want the imminent departure to occur on their own terms, even if that can mean paying out some severance, etc.

As another poster stated, now you are going to get some severance and other benefits that can help ease your transition to a better thing, so that's great. It is nearly always financially better to get laid off/fired than to quit voluntarily.

Don't worry about explaining it away. If other companies ask why you left without having something new first, just say that you and management didn't see eye to eye, and that you want to focus on finding a place that's a good match, because it's not worth wasting time at a place that isn't a good match. This is all totally true and valid, and it will serve to flatter the company if you end up accepting an offer. It also projects an image of financial security that may help in salary negotiations.

I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't hurt to be beaten to the punch, even when it's what you really wanted anyway. But hang in there and don't let it get you down. The emotional sting will pass and you'll be able to appreciate the brightness of the better future soon. :)

A couple of thoughts:

• Have you considered that your being unhappy with the job was an intentional act on the part of others? Getting people to leave on their own is substantially easier on the long-term financials of a company (no unemployment payments, less legal liability). I'm amazed, for how many people feel like the honeymoon is over at their jobs, at how few are aware that this is completely intentional for money reasons.

• What damage? It's rare that I've seen anybody doing the hiring care about the detailed circumstances of why you left your last job. Why you want to work at the new place is far more important to them. It's a seller's market right now, and you need to stop worrying and start doing.

In three months (provided you do enough legwork in that time) you'll come to the conclusion that they were doing you a favor. Assuming you weren't a contractor (and you were actually fired), apply for unemployment benefits immediately to help you weather the storm.

> ... an intentional act on the part of others? Getting people to leave on their own is substantially easier on the long-term financials of a company

A great point and it absolutely happens.

To maximize future success, learn from this lesson. If you are unhappy with the job and are looking, you need to try as hard as you can to keep a happy disposition and don't signal a thing until you have a new job offer in hand and are ready to quit.

Why does it matter? Because now you need to find a job, and your future employer knows this. They will now have an advantage in salary negotiations compared to the alternative, where you have an existing job and can walk away if their offer isn't good enough.

A secondary task is to keep your ear to the ground and learn when a major event, like a layoff or firing, is imminent. It's not as hard to detect as you think.

I was laid off too last week. Here is wha advice I have been given by HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16240389

This reply is to do with dealing with the psychological effects of feeling rejected and feeling like you failed, rather than legal or job hunting.

I got made redundant at one of my previous companies, in a similar boat as you, unhappy at the time.

A lot of the other employees were very surprised because I was known as a high-performer and before I'd moved teams was a lot of people's go-to guy for getting shit down. I think they weren't really seeing how much of a 'handful' I'd become for management.

It took a long, long time for me to really be ok with it. Like a decade. I would very much recommend you deal with it now, and not let it fester like I did.

As I say, I did it badly, but if it happened again, I'd try and say these things to myself:

1. It's not a reflection on your skill, it's a relationship thing. Try and realise this. You split up, and the reasons can have nothing to do with your technical skills, your interpersonal skills, your politics skills, whatever. It can be simply that you didn't fit and eventually that became more of a problem than all the other benefits you did offer.

2. Just because you got fired doesn't make all the work you ever did there bad. You did some great things. Maybe try and reflect and write down all the great things you did do.

3. You already wanted to leave. You'd already decided it was over, they just realised it. You ALREADY wanted to leave. It was already over.

4. Try not to burn bridges, either through spite or through inaction. Try and keep in contact with people you valued in the business, as friends and as future useful networking contacts. That might even include the people who fired you. I sometimes wish I could ask one of my old bosses, who I highly valued, for advice. Yes, it might take time, maybe a year, maybe two, but don't feel like you can't say hi, even after a break. I ultimately lost good friends over it because I felt so awkward about it.

5. It's business, you should not feel any shame. It's simply business. Realistically speaking, you simply got out-manoeuvred. Maybe you subconsciously advertised that you were moving on, and so they reacted in a fairly predictable manner.

6. The abruptness of it doesn't mean anything, it is simply easier for them. As a business they have that control. Don't read anything at all into the abruptness. They might have spent multiple meetings agonising over what to do with you, but you'll never hear or see about that.

7. They're only a bunch of humans, they probably made many mistakes in managing you, in nurturing you and in keeping you happy.

It is definitely stressful when you don't have control over events in your life and I can understand your shock. However, it sounds like you are in a faily good place.

I have a friend that worked in an unforgivingly toxic and disfunctional environment, but was determined to finish the job. He was not interviewing or even looking for jobs. One day, he got so fed up with things that he quit. A few weeks later they laid off half the team with severance.

In the grand scheme of things you ended up with a best case scenario. Now go on and find work that you are happy with

I have had the same experience. The environment was toxic, I was actively interviewing, and the company knew I was not happy. I was preparing the give my resignation the next day, as it turned out, but they pulled the trigger first. Regardless, like you, I wanted to leave on my own terms.

But keep things in perspective. Put shame to the side because that's not going to help. If you are a frontend developer, there is no shortage of job opportunities for you. Keep going with the interviewing process, and move on.

Best of luck!

Relatively young? You're very young. If you're not married or tied up with a mortgage yet I would travel for a few months to a year while it's still ok to use hostels. You can always apply for positions from abroad, develop some proactive skill like using orgmode or meditation and you get the kind of experiences that would put a permanent smile on your face whatever job you come back to. It's also a good excuse for being out of a job.

Out of curiosity, at what age do you think it stops being "ok" to stay at hostels?

30+

Depends. Some hostels have strict age limits. Most are a bit wary of older looking travelers but I've definitely run into over 40-ish people in them. OP is going to be fine. Not to mention, most hostels have a rooms you can rent and in a lot of places, like Asia, you'll end up with your private room for cheap anyway in many places (Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, in my experience).

In some sense, being fired when you were already interviewing may be a net advantage if it was a layoff with severance package, etc. Companies don’t owe you anything if you quit, which you would have had to do if one of the other jobs made a quick offer.

Yep, financially I may end up better off in the short term, between the severance and unemployment. But it wasn't a layoff, it was a termination. So that is going to be a lot harder to deal with for explaining to future employers I would think.

Your severance agreement probably includes a non-disparagement clause (you can't bad mouth the company after you sign). That clause should be mutual (they can't criticize you either in public or to a future employer). Even without that in place, most companies will do nothing more than confirm length of employment and (maybe) job title to avoid a law suite.

When you apply for future jobs you are under no obligation to go into the details of your departure from this one. I wouldn't recommend lying, but you can certainly phrase it differently than "I got fired". Especially since you were already looking for other jobs, you can legitimately say that you felt the role was a poor fit and you started looking for something new.

>non-disparagement clause

I've had to sign one of these to get cashed out after a company-wide lay off before. I ran it past a lawyer friend and he says they do not hold up in court.

Saying that, there are plenty of ways to frame the situation without being overly negative about the former company or yourself.

In many jurisdictions there is a difference between being laid off and fired. Terminated can mean either so it's not a precise word to use. I have been laid off before and it is not a big deal. Being fired otoh is much worse because it implies misconduct.

I wouldn't make that distinction when talking to potential employers, the difference between layoff and termination is quite subjective.

I have been fired from a few jobs - some of them because I was experiencing an undiagnosed medical issue.

Don't over think this.

Don't use coy words to hide this. It just invites interviewers to drill down into the "why did you leave?" question.

Be boldly honest if asked: "I was having difficulties in believing in the new direction of the company."

"I was experiencing the stress of a new baby keeping me up at night."

As an interviewer, the things I care about are:

1. Is the same issue likely to repeat itself if I hire you;

2. Was the situation a sign of anything that is going to cause a lawsuit ( i.e. sexual harassment )?

3. Do you have anger management issues?

4. Do you have the ability to recognize and correct your own bad behavior? Or do you blame others?

I've been laid off twice in 2017, still unemployed from the 2nd one. Not going to lie, its tough. Just have to keep your head down and keep focused on something. I've taken the time to brush up on new skills.

I've been fired lots of times.

Sometimes I ended up in a better position earning more money.

"I still don't know how to confront the shame"

There's nothing to be ashamed of. Tell people you're moving on to look for new challenges.

Allow yourself to process the grief, humiliation, rage etc. if you are not in regular therapy, find a friend you can honestly vent out to and who can listen to you with an attitude of “these are thoughts and emotions that need to get out so they don’t fester. They in no way define this person”

If you skip this step, you risk losing energy and cognitive resources to these unresolved emotions.

- Find any weakness in your skills or communications and see if you can improve those.

-Believe in yourself and do not give up, you will get a decent job eventually, but then in tech space, you will need to deal with all kinds of people, so hard to be satisfied always.

Hang in there. There are some great replies here that I hope you take to heart, especially the psychological side of it. It sounds like you haven't been through this before (it still sucks regardless of how many times it happens).

Some practical questions:

1) Were you fired or laid off? There is a difference and it especially makes a difference when you apply for unemployment. How did HR or your manager frame it?

2) UI. I see you already applied which is great. The process is different in every state (assuming you're American here so correct me if I'm wrong). In CA, it takes about 2-3 weeks after you apply to get your first check.

3) Follow what the others said about confirming what they are going to say about you if someone calls for references. Most companies now cover their asses by only giving dates of employment, even if you were were a great employee.

4) If you made good friends at the company, they're probably wondering what happened to you as well. Be sure to reach out, go for a drink or two, etc. I still have drinks and am good friends with people from various jobs throughout the years, some of which ended like this. When I was laid off from my last job, my personal phone and email blew up because the only thing the company said was "X is no longer with us" in an email

5) Give yourself a certain amount of time to look over and reflect on what went right and what went wrong but then cut it off and don't dwell. There are probably mistakes made on both sides that you can learn from.

6) Go ahead and get your resume out there, LinkedIn spiffied up, and Indeed profile updated. Know what you want from your next position too that you didn't like about this one (see #5). The good part about working a shitty job and these experiences is that it teaches you what you don't want in life and work.

Personal stuff:

I thought mattmanser wrote a great reply for this, as well as some others.

1) Have you had time off in a while or did you sacrifice some of that for the job? If you want to take a short break and clear your head and heart, now is a great time to do so. I was let go in July and wish in August or September I had taken at least a week or two elsewhere to decompress.

2) You mentioned shame. There's no shame here. This shit happens to a lot of people, especially in this more cut-throat day and age. You're friends, if they truly are friends, are going to empathize with you, let you talk it out, and hopefully buy you a round of beers or three.

As someone else said, it's business. Sounds like if you were laid off you're in an at-will state. Think of it this way: Employers expect us to give them at least two weeks notice but they usually have policies of laying off people immediately and sending out the door that day. It's an unbalanced power relationship.

3) If you may not realize it until too late, but it's easy to get really down-down and time will slip away. Nothing wrong with sleeping in the first day or two off but if you regularly find yourself just staying in bed all day, overthinking things, that's starting to trend to minor depression. Be sure to get outside, exercise, see people, etc. It sounds like you already have that going for you.

If that shit does take hold, and even in general, I highly recommend this book called "How to Be Miserable" that uses counter-examples to make you think about things. I bought it after coming across the CGP-Grey video that discusses it:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1mTELoj6o

Book: https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Miserable-Strategies-Already/d...

4) You were already unhappy so see this as an opportunity, a possibility, vs a negative. Work on a project you've always wanted to start but didn't have the time or energy. Work on your job applications and/or with a recruiter for a certain amount of time then block out time to be creative. Who knows, you might create a job for yourself and then only you can fire you!

5) Overall, good luck! It sucks but you will come out stronger for it. There are always options out there. It can be a struggle to stay positive and confident. The pain and anger of this will pop out of nowhere at times but just realize what's happening and let it go.

I've been out of work for six months now, some of it due to being picky about my next job, some of it with a month or so missing because of aforementioned depression, and now, my UI has run out and I have about two months to make something happen here.

But, for once, I'm really fucking positive about my future. I'm spending a part of the day applying to work and other parts of the day learning new things that will help out in the short to medium term. If shit doesn't work out here, my backup plan is to say fuck it and go to Taiwan and teach English for a year where I can save money as well as continue to pursue my learning.

You always have options it's just hard to know what they are sometimes. Keep talking to people, going to meetups, participating in life. You're going to be fine!

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