How America Fell in Love with Vodka | Hacker News Reader

How America Fell in Love with Vodka

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38 pointscoloneltcb64 comments

Vodka has a great many cooking applications as well. Most liquid "extracts" like vanilla extract are just vanilla beans that have been left to soak in a bottle of vodka for awhile. You could easily make your own that way.

The same method works for homemade liquers. Orange peel submerged in vodka for a month will make a flavorful orange liquer. And vodka added to a simple syrup (equal parts water and sugar boiled until the sugar dissolves) and coffee, left to age, will make a yummy homemade Kahlua.

Vodka's versatility is its greatest strength.

You can even use it to make a great pie crust

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/articles/37-foolproof-pie-d...

Kenji now steers away from this method: "But to be completely honest, it's one that I don't really use at home that often. With the fat/flour all-butter technique, it's really not necessary—the dough is easy to roll out as-is—and in fact, I've even heard some folks complain that the additional liquid that vodka allows you to add makes for a dough that's too sticky to roll out. If you're a pie crust veteran, you'll find it very odd to work with.

There's also the fact that the recipe violates Rule #1 of my home: don't waste alcohol."

http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/03/science-of-pie-7-myths-th...

Pure grain alcohol, such as Everclear, will generally do those jobs better. I make limoncello with Everclear, which does a much better job of extracting oils and flavors than regular vodka. And it does the job much faster, especially if you have access to 190 proof. Of course you have to dilute down to the proper strength when the extraction is complete.

I don't get it, Everclear is literally vodka (pure grain alcohol), maybe a bit stronger?

Vodka is typically 40% ABV.

Everclear is sold in 75.5% ABV and 95% ABV varieties.

So, quite a bit stronger.

Ah damn, missed the 1 in front of 90, 90 proof would be 45% :)

A lot stronger with the 190 proof (95%) Everclear.

Ethanol works well to extract flavors due to it's lipophilic character (oil-loving). The more dilute it is, the less oil-dissolving power it has.

190 proof alcohol will pull a lot more from something like orange peels than 80 proof.

I believe that Everclear contains even less contaminants (higher alcohols, esters, ketones, etc) than typical vodka does. I know that 95% reagent-grade ethanol does.

It literally isn't vodka. Everclear is a rectified spirit (pure grain alcohol) Vodka isn't anywhere near as distilled. It's less pure, a lot less.

Plus vodka has a ton more water.

Any time you create a liqueur you should use rectified spirits (Everclear/Crystal Clear/Golden Grain/etc) not vodka.

There's quite a bit of a confusion here.

Everclear is a rectified spirit (pure grain alcohol)

'Rectified' refers to the method of distillation, not purity or source. 'Rectified spirit' is not equivalent to 'pure grain alcohol'. The latter can be the former, depending on the type of distillation. The former can be the latter if it's derived from grain (rather than from e.g. potatoes).

Vodka isn't anywhere near as distilled.

Russian state standard for vodka specifies use of rectified alcohol. This statement doesn't make much sense, as vodka is simply diluted ethanol. Before dilution it has been distilled just as much as any other rectified ethanol.

It's less pure, a lot less.

Alcohol used in high-grade vodkas typically undergoes extensive filtration beyond distillation. Industrial rectified alcohol will typically contain significantly more contaminants (e.g. fusel oils) unless it's UHP lab grade and is what's used in the crappy cheap vodkas.

Any time you create a liqueur you should use rectified spirits (Everclear/Crystal Clear/Golden Grain/etc) not vodka.

Depends on the liqueur. Some formulations call for grappa, some for brandy, and clearly will not tolerate a substitution with a rectified spirit.

How much worse is it to use a cheap vodka rather than a 60-95% spirit?

I had planned to try making some liqueurs next month, probably with berries and/or spices, but if the vodka won't work well then I might not bother.

(I'm fine with destroying a cheap bottle of vodka, it's not so expensive. The one shop that a Google search suggests might have 95% spirit sells it for almost $60/L, which is a lot for one of my food experiments that probably won't work out very well.)

You can get a $1.75 bottle of everclear for $35-$40 [http://www.theliquorbarn.com/everclear-grain-alcohol-190-pro...]

That should translate into < $10 for an equivalent 750 ml bottle of 40% vodka.

Depends on what you plan to do and what you mean by “cheap”. Bottom shelf vodkas taste pretty foul and aren’t good for much of anything except getting drunk cheaply. Smirnoff, however, is perfectly good for most purposes.

You can definitely make liqueurs with vodka. It’ll take longer to extract flavors and the final flavor may not be as robust, though. Get 100 proof vodka if possible. The higher the proof the quicker and more efficient the extraction.

I would suggest you pop into some local liquor stores and check out the pricing for 150 or 190 grain alcohol. I can’t imagine that $60 is the right price for a liter of 190. I bought a couple fifths (750 mL) a week ago from BevMo for $20 plus tax each. That was a sale price but the normal price is only $24.

Ok, I'll try it with the vodka.

I gave the price in dollars as few will understand 395DKK, but I live in Denmark, where alcohol tax is very high. Although less than the other Nordic countries.

It's cheap in Poland, but it's not permitted on aircraft, and I don't drive that way too often.

You can also use Everclear for industrial purposes, e.g. diluting wood finishes, as a less toxic alternative to denatured alcohol.

I live in a state where you can buy denatured alcohol full of legally-mandated poison at hardware stores, but you can't get 190-proof Everclear anywhere. It's an odd screwed-up situation when you are only allowed to sell high-proof alcohol if you poison it first. I suspect the health damage done by the fumes over the years far outweighs the public health benefits of restricting the strength of drinkable alchohol, and the health damage falls disproportionately on people using the alcohol for non-recreational purposes.

> the public health benefits of restricting the strength of drinkable alchohol

I think the restriction is mostly to ensure taxes are paid on drinkable alcohol and not due to health concerns.

It is illegal to sell 190 Everclear in my state. Taxes don’t have anything to do with it.

Out of curiosity, where do you live? When I lived in Mississippi I couldn’t buy it, either. But then, I lived in a town where I couldn’t buy cold beer.

California.

Oh, I’d forgotten about that in California. :-/

True, I didn’t completely understand your comment on the first read. But I wonder if enough people would actually buy expensive drinkable alcohol instead of the inexpensive denaturalized one for the difference in toxicity to make a difference when it comes to industrial applications.

There is undoubtedly some small contingency of people who fervently believe that putting methanol or acetone in ethanol to ”denature” it will reduce alcohol consumption and improve “public health”. Mostly, though, denatured alcohol exists to ensure that industrial use of alcohol isn’t crippled by “sin” taxes.

Alcohol taxation is a big revenue generator. Selling 190 proof ethanol at the hardware store for a couple bucks per liter would likely put a real dent in tax revenue as people used it in place of vodka and everclear for punches and whatnot. Charging a $10 tax per liter on industrial ethanol would put a real dent in otherwise valuable uses. So denatured alcohol is the ugly compromise.

I’m just happy I live in a state where I can buy 190 in a liquor store. It’s faster and more cost effective for liqueur creation than 150. It’s amazing how rapidly it desiccates lemon zest. I’d leave 150 for almost a month to extract lemon oils. 190 does the same job in about a week.

I agree that blocking the sale of alcohol over 150 proof is bizarre and does nothing to reduce alcohol consumption. Frankly no one is drinking 190 straight so blocking the sale just means you buy two fifths of 150 instead of one of 190 for your party.

If you don't mind, which state is it?

Washington state

Would isopropyl alcohol work for those industrial purposes? Amazon sells 99% isopropyl.

Probably for some uses. One major drawback of isopropyl is that it’s so much more toxic than ethanol.

Another Everclear lover here. It's great when you want a serious buzz. Because there's nothing there but ethanol and water. So hangover is much less intense. Back in the day, I used to drink 95% reagent grade ethanol, liberated from the lab. But not absolute ethanol, because it contains traces of benzene.

Indeed, but we use brandy for vanilla extract to add a little more flavor.

Back to liquer: fill a jar half full with pitted sour cherries or grapes. Fill the jar the rest of the way to the top with sugar cubes. Add vodka until everything is covered, put on the lid, leave in a dark place, and forget about it for about six months. The liquer you get is spectacular, and the boozy fruit is phenomenal on something like ice cream.

Frankly I don't understand why grocery stores don't just sell undenatured purified food-grade ethanol. There's plenty of supply, and if people could be taught how to use it, there would be tonnes of demand. This isn't the 19th century, we all have running water to mix our ethanol with if we want "straight" vodka.

Dave Arnold has a spiel about how the best vodka he’s had was diluted potable lab ethanol.

Making drinks from lab grade ethanol seems to be an popular past-time activity for almost any vaguely natural science Ph.D. student I ever known. Usually it also involves fractional destilation of lab grade denatured ethanol (often "specially denatured ethanol" which is somewhat simpler to "dedenaturate") into potable ethanol. It is somewhat notable that physics people tend to end up with simple physical processes for that (pour ethanol on baking tray and bake in baking oven for X amount of time, light it on fire, if flame is not visible you have potable ethanol) while people coming from chemical sciences tend to build incredible complex contraptions from lab glassware (I've seen such contraption which converted normal denatured alcohol into gin or jaegemester-like liquor depending on its software configuration as a continuous process, it was built by obviously bored pharmaceutics Ph.D. students, filled two lab benches and involved two Sun Ultra 5s for computer control)

Reagent-grade 95% ethanol isn't denatured. Because then it wouldn't be reagent-grade. What we had in biochem labs had tax-exempt labels.

At my old job we used 200 proof, undenatured ethanol by the gallon. A bunch of forms had be signed as it was untaxed (~$10/gal, $50/gal with tax).

I did try tasting it and it was awful. Pure ethanol is near odorless, but gains a smell from the oxidation of ethanol to acetaldehyde. The lab grade stuff had a very strong smell.

You don't want to drink that stuff. It contains traces of benzene. Benzene blocks the 95% ethanol/5% water azeotrope, which has a lower boiling point than ethanol.

Would it contain those traces if it were produced with molecular sieves rather than benzene?

Probably not. But distillation is still the norm, isn't it?

I don't know, but I do know there are facilities producing food and pharmaceutical grade 200 proof spirits using molecular sieves for the last 3-5% of water (I'm guessing followed by another distillation to remove the sieve particulate).

Very cool. My knowledge is obviously dated. I recall adding molecular sieves to absolute ethanol to keep it dry. Bu I didn't know that had gone commercial.

This was actually 200 proof USP (US Pharmacopendia) ethanol. Fit for use in products for human consumption.

I never would have drank it otherwise. If it's not made specifically for human consumption, even really pure ethanol can have super nasty trace toxins in it.

I wonder how they make it? Maybe add a drying agent to 95% ethanol?

Edit: Yes. Using molecular sieves, I gather.

> I did try tasting it and it was awful. Pure ethanol is near odorless, but gains a smell from the oxidation of ethanol to acetaldehyde. The lab grade stuff had a very strong smell.

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend putting an undiluted form of almost anything in your mouth. Nobody puts pure acetic acid on their french fries, nor does anyone drink pure citric acid, so I don't see why anyone would think pure ethanol would be much better.

Citric acid is a solid at room temperature, which makes drinking it difficult. You can buy it as a food grade seasoning and some people do eat small quantities of it pure.

I didn't drink the stuff straight! I did a taste test of a drop of the full 200 proof. It did burn as expected, not pleasant at all.

The real taste test was a 50% dilution. Tasted like really cheap vodka.

Marketing. People want notionally imperial Russian vodkas like Smirnoff and frou-frou pseudo-French brands like Grey Goose, not Costco "undenatured purified food-grade alcohol".

I do not know how it looks like in States, but in my home country (Poland) it's quite easy to buy rectified spirit (90%+ ) in a normal grocery store for cooking or so. But nobody uses it to produce vodka by mixing with tap water, expect teens 20 years ago.

Never seen it in Spain though and definitely not in Finland, when I live now and it's impossible to buy a wine after 8pm.

I guess it should come as no surprise that the birthplace of directly-marketed neutral grain spirits sells it to the public. Unfortunately it seems that it's illegal in many U.S. states, all of Norway. Here in Ontario I've heard they used to sell the equivalent through the LCBO (the monopoly state retailer of spirits, recently no longer the monopoly on wine and beer), but the product pages linked from forums talking about it are dead, and the manufacturer no longer lists it on their site. I hear Everclear (major American grain ethanol brand) can be bought in Alberta.

> nobody uses it to produce vodka by mixing with tap water

Why not?

When you mix ethanol with water it gets heated up : https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/d859/b2900e6d66cf71d79601dd...

Russian saying "The worst thing after drinking hot vodka is to have sex with sweaty woman".

Yet, it was Dmitry Mendeleev (inventor of Periodic Table of Element) who discovered that 40% mixture of ethanol and water is the best combination. It is quite hard to achieve precise mixture ratio by hand.

Yet in USSR you could buy pure drinkable spirit, here is a label of the bottle: http://incolorprint.ru/d/701905/d/1959_Спирт_Питьевой.jpg

Used in cases when volume matters.

I love how even famous Russian scientists live up to the stereotypes.

I wouldn't say it is a stereotype, it has practical reasons - 40% mixture is the max that body can consume right away. More than that and spirit stays in blood so it just enough to drink pure water next day and you are drunk again. Tried couple of times - not that pleasing effect.

It's an often told story but I have not seen actual sources. Vodka had been made to "polugar" ("полугар",literally "half-burn") measure long before Mendeleev has been born. "Polugar" was a spirit, which could be burned down to half of the volume (when heated almost to boiling, of course) and it's about 38% ABV. More plausible theory is that when the better methods of measuring alcohol contents became available the standard had been set up to the "round" 40%.

> When you mix ethanol with water it gets heated up

I don't exactly know how to read this paper into real power-per-volume or temperature differential. Does a crude mixture produce an unsafe or inconvenient amount of heat? Does a mixture of chilled ethanol and water (not really part of this experiment) heat enough for the ethanol (or the water!) to evaporate?

> It is quite hard to achieve precise mixture ratio by hand.

Is there a place where measuring cups or at least five normal cups of similar volume to eachother are not commonly found in households?

> Russian saying "The worst thing after drinking hot vodka is to have sex with sweaty woman"

These are the worst things in Russian life? Call me a degenerate, but both seem still pretty pleasurable.

I mean, drinking the sweat of a sweaty woman and having sex with warm vodka are definite hard-no's in my book.

>Yet, it was Dmitry Mendeleev (inventor of Periodic Table of Element) who discovered that 40% mixture of ethanol and water is the best combination

Wikipedia disagrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Mendeleev#Vodka_myth

It's apparently quite expensive[0]. Once you get maximum purity that distillation allows, it's not worth the cost to process further just for recreational use.

[0] https://www.quora.com/Where-can-you-buy-ethanol

Vodka is a terrible spirit in most respects. I am Ukrainian, but I buck the stereotype. Ideal vodka is pure water with pure ethanol. That is as boring as you can make a beverage.

In Ukraine we also had horilka, which is basically spiced vodka. This was not some delicacy, but was historically done by necessity because the many impurities in the vodka had to be masked by strong spice flavors.

Handcrafted artisanal vodka is about as much horse manure as “living water”. Would you buy hand crafted artisanal gasonline for your car? Or high purity electrons for your computer to run on? Again, if you can get to 40% ethanol, 60% water, you are good. Who cares how it was made, it’s an artificial product.

(Ok some people probably would. After all, they buy $1000 gold cables for their audio equipment.)

Personally, I prefer things with actual flavor. Like rum, scotch, or brandy. More flavor is good.

Amen.

I can only add to this that you never drink vodka for taste. You drink it for the effects. The only two qualities it must be judged on is 1) how quickly and easily it goes down 2) how little hangover it results in. The less you have in vodka the better it is on both points. Hence, comrade Igor's advice is a sound one. Even if it sounds a bit alien.

is hangover really depending on impurities? Ethanol it self goes through a poisonous stage when broken down in our digestive system - isn‘t that what‘s causing hangover?

It can be made worse with impurities, especially those found in wine http://www.businessinsider.com/red-wine-worst-hangovers-2016...

> Vodka is a terrible spirit in most respects.

It's a terrible spirit in all respects. A good whisky is the choice of the discerning drinker. Vodka is the Budweiser of spirits. Best left to the club crowd and those afflicted with a degenerate palette.

I use to be a whiskey man. I only drank whiskey. It came to a point where I would feel hungover the next morning after just 3 fingers of Maker's Mark the earlier evening. I switched to a vodka tonic with lime. Didnt have the same hangover symptoms. I guess my body prefers clear liquor.

Or your body prefers water to alcohol, and vodka tonics got you more of it than straight whiskey.

I agree this is a huge factor. Whiskey likely does contribute to hangovers more than vodka due to the stuff that’s leeched out of the charred barrels. But the quantity of water consumed with alcohol has a huge impact on hangovers. I am far less likely to feel hungover when I drink beer than cocktails because beer contains a lot of water and the cocktails I like do not.

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