Dutch agencies provide crucial intel about Russia’s interference in US elections | Hacker News Reader

Dutch agencies provide crucial intel about Russia’s interference in US elections

volkskrant.nl

50 pointswglb18 comments

Best bit - watching the hackers move in and out via hacked IoT security cameras. How very James Bond.

The Dutch have a lot more credibility with me than the 'five eyes' intelligence agencies. This is the first time I've seen claims so specific from people who aren't already tainted by mass dishonesty or political incentives. My inclination is to believe them. I personally find this testimony more convincing than reports from American firms or agencies.

That said, the hack of the DNC in question wasn't "hacking democracy" by any reasonable definition of the term, in my eyes. The leaked documents and emails were controversial because of what they showed about Clinton and the DNC itself. Voters only had more information after that. Claims that this undermined voters has to rely on the idea that if the Republicans had leaked emails they'd have been impacted in the same way but Trump basically leaks anything that pops into his head anyway, so it's hard to imagine. If the documents had been leaked by a DNC insider to Wikileaks instead, the outcome would have been the same and nobody would be freaking out.

Arguably both political parties should be required to release their internal communications to the public anyway. It's not clear what's to be gained by having that information be secret.

Small countries will do as they are told.

> The Cozy Bear hackers are in a space in a university building near the Red Square. The group's composition varies, usually about ten people are active. The entrance is in a curved hallway. A security camera records who enters and who exits the room. The AIVD hackers manage to gain access to that camera. Not only can the intelligence service now see what the Russians are doing, they can also see who's doing it. Pictures are taken of every visitor. In Zoetermeer, these pictures are analyzed and compared to known Russian spies. Again, they've acquired information that will later prove to be vital.

Wow.

> For years, Painter was responsible for America's cyber policy. He resigned last August. 'We'd never expected that the Russians would do this, attacking our vital infrastructure and undermining our democracy.'

Horse. Shit. They've been doing it to us, and we've been doing it to everyone else, for a LONG time.

Yeah, seriously. "We never expected this" while, say, hacking Angela Merkel's phone and spying on friendly countries in addition to installing backdoors everywhere...

This list is an exaggeration by someone with an extreme position but every one of these had US involement: https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peopl...

It also is missing the ironic involvement of the USA dispatching people to help Boris Yeltzin come back from losing to winning the Russian elections in the 90s (it's not even a secret, see the movie Spinning Boris).

Can someone tell me exactly what the word "hacking" means when people say "Russians hacked the election" over and above what was continuously happening by many countries the whole time?

The USA is now the lone superpower. The standards are (and should be) different from 1990s Russia.

Besides the other commenters, I don't understand what the conclusion of your argument means, even granting the premise.

In your eyes, what does this make China?

What's a China? /s. A superpower is defined as "a county that has the capacity to project dominating power and influence anywhere in the world". I'm assuming he didn't know that before, but now we can all agree, US is far from the only country that can project dominating power and influence.

During the elections there were a bunch of different US citizens and companies that tried to influence the election, such as the released audio tape by NBCUniversal and the accusation of crimes levied against both candidates. From the outside looking in, the US election seems to primarily about different groups trying to do influence the election through scandals and barely anything about politics.

Even the bright line of "Foreign electoral intervention" seems more like a guideline than a rule. If >50% of the shareholders of NBCUniversal is owned outside of the US, does that make the tape an illegal attempt to influence US politics, while if its 49% then its perfectly legal influence of politics? Can we apply the same rule to the public listed owner of NBCUniversal, ie Comcast?

>During the elections there were a bunch of different US citizens and companies that tried to influence the election

If I remember the 16 election correctly I’m pretty sure the controversial part was when people’s computers were broken into and their private emails were distributed.

After all the NSA leaks, can we really say that the act of hacking is the controversial part of the story? All the press and news article focus on the "influence the election" part, with not that much outrage over the actually means in which the influence happened.

Would we not have the exact same situation and discussion if a insider administrator leaked the emails?

This story is wild. Recommended read.

so much pride in this article because the dutch helped big brother US.

but why did AIVD hack the russians in the first place?

it's a nice story, and that's just what it is. nothing is confirmed by anyone other than a mass media / news outlet, keep that in mind while you read. us democratic party is more friendly with Netherlands than republican party etc. Now that's not saying that this never happened, but need to stay objective and consider the bigger picture.

As a dutch person I want to make one thing very clear.

We mostly distinguish not between Republicans and Democrats (since neither fits any political identity here), but between people that make everything about politics and people who don't.

To suggest we fall for the same partisan trap that is currently responsible for the complete cultural and social fabric unraveling in the US is insulting.

We are a much more cultural homogenous country. Our political extremes are not debating whether the earth is round, climate change is happening or if our AIVD has video of Russians hackers doing these actual things.

The fact that Holland shared this information with the US during both presidents (Obama, Trump) is because we have a bone to pick with Russia after they shot down a plane with many dutch citizen in them above Ukraine.

The reason this information comes out at this particular moment, i.e. the timing. Is because Trump bragged to Putin about how the US has such good friends they could see the Russian hackers (remember this happening? Your agencies getting angry at Trump for leaking secrets?). That likely destroyed the operation. So now the timing of the leak of this factually correct information is all about how to do him (personally) the most harm.

This is not Republicans or Democrats. This is about Trump and Putin both getting a knee for their disrespect to us. Please be smart enough to not stand in the way.

There is no mention of specific electoral interference in the (google translated) version that I read. There is a play by play hacking attack on the state department, with an attempt to install malware on state computers, but nothing is said about the election or how this attack might influence it.

Meanwhile, of course, AIPAC continues to spend millions of dollars per year to directly influence US elections, drawing no such scrutiny.

It specifically says that the Dutch watched Fancy Bear hack the DNC.

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