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Comment by 3pt14159 | Hacker News Reader

The rumours of Ember's demise are greatly exaggerated.

I have yet to hear of people making the same amount in any other framework. Seniors are making $200k to $500k in remote positions (the people I know live in Toronto, but they could be anywhere).

It is hard to learn, and I'm far from an expert, but the highest I've heard another JS developer who knew both Angular and React completely and he was responsible for migrating a company from one to the other and he was just starting to get into that range.

Large SPA JS applications are easier to structure in Ember because there are so many best practices. The problem with Ember is the learning curve because it doesn't usually let you take shortcuts.

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> Seniors are making $200k to $500k in remote positions

Finally, a framework feature that's truly compelling. :)

I'd point out that often rare and often unused skills get higher pay due to simple supply and demand. I've heard similar salary ranges for Assembly programmers for example.

Angular and React are widely used, and there are many people out there that know them. No need to pay a ton.

> The problem with Ember is the learning curve because it doesn't usually let you take shortcuts.

I'm guessing that's precisely one of the main why it's not used widely. Why train an entire dev team on it only to have half leave in a year and have to be constantly retraining on a language with a large learning curve?

It’s not a language, it’s a framework. You can take any experienced JS developer and make them proficient in either Ember or any framework mentioned in the article within days.

People overexaggerate how difficult each framework is. They’re all front end frameworks made to do one job. Yes, each of them have their own nuances, but nothing that cannot be understood spending few days coding, reading docs and speaking with someone experienced in this particular framework.

Completely untrue. I was at Bocoup and we wanted to standardize on Ember. It took weeks to get devs doing the basics in a large app. Ember isn't gone because its misunderstood. Its gone because we can build the same apps using more suitable libs/frameworks, in a fraction of the time, with less code, less magic, and less upgrade burden. Ember sucked at upgrades, even though they tried to make it better.

Ember isn't gone or anything close to it.

Not to be a jerk, but can you provide any links to large sites or apps that use Ember? Again,this is a serious question, as I like to keep tabs on trends for JS stuff like this.

LinkedIn uses ember, but other than that I have not heard about big examples either.

Netflix, FreshBooks, Apple Music, Square (the Dashboard), many others.

Twitch, Microsoft Store, LinkedIn, Netflix, Digital Ocean

I'd argue frameworks are their own language built on top of another, but this is all semantics.

As far as learning curves, I'm taking the GP's word on Ember's difficulty to learn, but generally as mentioned below, I don't think you can truly learn a framework that quickly.

Convention, best practices, etc take time. For example, someone that learns AngularJS in a day could end up using $scope, a practice abandoned for many reasons for alternate methods. So does standardizing devs and dev teams on the same practices. A lot of these things often take mistakes to truly understand, or someone who has seen a lot of them within close proximity. The way people write code for each of these programs evolved though those exact mistakes. A framework can constrain, but there are still plenty of ways to mess up at a high level.

> Why train an entire dev team on it only to have half leave in a year

Errr, Ember is the most stable of currently used JS frameworks. And generally this whole "change JS framework every year" meme is crazily overblown.

This is about how long people stay at the same job, not the framework stability. In my experience people hop from job to job often enough that you'd be regularly training people on a language unless they already knew it when hired. So a language that people already know or has a low learning curve is usually preferred for many companies.

The Framework wars are overblown, and they've become profitable to perpetuate for clicks and views. I know plenty of people using Ember today and loving it. Same with Angular. React is popular but it's hardly the only game in town.

Actually, learning Ember.js is quite simple, because of Ember CLI, which was the pioneer and inspired Angular CLI and Create React App. Try this tutorial and you will be an employable Ember expert in a few days: http://www.yoember.com

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