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Comment by Fnoord | Hacker News Reader

Just skip this terrible usability nightmare and read the original list instead at [1]. FWIW, I used Ctrl+F to search around (for, in my case, my country name).

And the 100 dollar question: is this better or worse than an average bank from your_country? I have no clue about my own bank. Reading through this list, it seems I should get a clue about my own bank.

[1] https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list

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And then what? You find they are doing almost the same, move to the biggest forrest you can find and start living on berries and rabbits? Or you decide to cut 1/3 of your savings, buy paypal and show them how to do it the right way?

It's really hard to see any reasonable options you have as source of data.

Some cryptocurrencies are designed to preserve privacy, to protect people from exactly this problem.

I don't think cryptocurrencies are protecting anyone from any problem.

OK, I'll bite. How is Monero not protecting people's privacy?

Because most Monero transactions are traceable, according to research by the National University of Singapore:

https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf

If anyone can debunk this I’d love to hear more, but generally I think it’s dangerous to rely on claims of secrecy

https://getmonero.org/2017/04/19/an-unofficial-response-to-a...

Thanks for the link. While it’s good to see the paper overstates the problem, it’s also clear that users should not assume that their Monero transactions are untraceable.

I think the summary of both papers (the initial paper and monero's unofficial response) could be that monero's transactions are reasonably untraceable.

Reasonably private should be good enough for most people.

If the goal is more-private-than-bitcoin, yes, it's less traceable than bitcoin. If the goal is bulletproof-from-authorities, not so much.

Yes, a known example is Monero. The question is, first and foremost, if you should trust cryptocurrencies.

You don't, that's the point. It's an investment of time and money to learn the tech so you don't need to trust it.

Trustlessness, in other words the property of not requiring trust in the ledger's correctness, is the cornerstone of cryptocurrencies.

Yeah, but the biggest ones are not inflationary, so they end up as exclusively hype-driven speculative investment vehicles. That's not good for a method of payment.

Monero is inflationary, but it still might not keep up with coin loss.

Even a coin with higher inflation will still be susceptible as a speculative-investment. It would be nice if there was a way to avoid that, and to keep value relatively-stable, but I can't think of anyway that does require trusting 3rd parties.

Typo, meant: "that does not require"

Preserving privacy by having a public ledger where everyone can see your transactions?

Basically every time I can pay with PayPal I can also pay with iDEAL (local equiv. of IBAN / bank transfer). PayPal just works quicker. It wouldn't surprise me if my current bank (Rabobank) did the same but then I can compare it with other banks available in my country and consider to (finally) make the switch because I've been considering to switch banks for quite some while (one of my options is Triodos [1] who resort to ethical banking / investments). I also want to start a savings account for my child for later. YMMV.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triodos_Bank

This right here is the reason we need cryptocurrency. Not for speculation, not as a "settlement layer", just for unfettered global economic activity accessible to normal people.

What could possibly go wrong!

Worse obviously. PayPal is a US company, US consumer rights and privacy policies are always worse. That's a given.

PayPal it's just another Luxembourg bank for EU citizens

I just recently opened a new checking account with Chase and, upon reading the terms, found they do exactly this. All banks do...its why (at least for me) we get so many offers on a daily basis. I really wish it werent the case.

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