Comment by stcredzero | Hacker News Reader

Comment by stcredzero | Hacker News Reader

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1. It just feels too good to hear him talk in those maps of meaning lectures...just putting metaphors together and interpreting them as he sees fit in the moment. That’s why it’s so appealing. But quite often it’s not logic and even less conclusive.

Pretty much like a TED talk. Actually, if you look up TED talks about how to be an effective speaker, you will find the advice to talk in simple language and to use metaphors. Also, they advise you to throw in sentiments to which your audience will agree.

2. His often repeated „life is suffering“ is in the presented totallity not a useful nor true worldview. Life is suffering and joy. (I say this as a pessimist.)

Do you actually think he says that life is only suffering? Sorry, but that seems like a deliberate misrepresentation of his views. What evidence do you have that Dr. Peterson is anti-joy? Here's an exercise: find evidence in what he says that shows he values joy.

3. If you then check out his reading list you find mostly very disturbing titles and no silver lining.

Let's go right for the most disturbing: The Gulag Archipelago. It's disturbing as an indictment of the worst human beings can do, while those same people are spouting the most positive sounding utopian ideology. It's not going to depress anyone in the West, unless they have already tied up their identity and self worth in a similar ideology.

As for a silver lining -- to buck up, bear your burdens, and strive to live a worthwhile life -- strikes me as a worthwhile and positive message.

1. I already agreed that his lectures are appealing. Do you agree that his arguments are not logic and conclusive?

2. Fair enough. I shall try if I ever hear his stuff again. With all the metaphors flying around it shouldn’t be to difficult. But can you point out where he says it’s so great to be alive?

3. If you call „I survived the gulag where thousands perished“ as a silver lining you must have a pretty grim world view.

You agree that the Gulag Archipelago is not a relevant reference point to 95% of his western audience. If you don’t find it depressing you must have a very strong character, I would assume a good portion gets depressed (in mood; clinical depression is out of my judgment).

Do you agree that his arguments are not logic and conclusive?

In that they are public speaking and they are not a thesis. They are public speaking, and those aren't logical and conclusive. The point you're trying to make could only stand if all the speakers you like and feel represent your world view have 100% logically rigorous speeches.

But can you point out where he says it’s so great to be alive?

I don't need to, to refute your silly assertion that he's somehow anti-happiness. None of these videos are direct statements about joy, because they are from talks where he is making an entirely differnt point, but it's clear that he's like any human being who thinks children are wonderful, and likes to have fun and laugh.

Talking about the potential of children, and of a pristine relationship with one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg9TY8uwaSY

Humor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyWwuv1UkRg

Stoner Comics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jisfAwMOhrQ

3. If you call „I survived the gulag where thousands perished“ as a silver lining you must have a pretty grim world view.

Again, not what I said. You said that he put forward books to depress his audience. That's obviously not true. The Gulag Archipelago is meant to alarm and meant to make a personal, emotional connection to the magnitude of the possible evil of such flowery sounding utopian ideologies.

If you don’t find it depressing you must have a very strong character

Or, one could be sure that one is in opposition to such ideologies. My father's older brother disappeared due to one regime with a collectivist ideology. My family here in the US is only here because the US military defended their lives from another regime with a collectivist ideology. Why should The Gulag Archipelago make anyone depressed, as opposed to angry? As opposed to resolute in the opposition of disguised evil?

I can only imagine it makes someone depressed if they identify with such an ideology.

What's more, I explicitly cite Dr. Peterson's message, "As for a silver lining -- to buck up, bear your burdens, and strive to live a worthwhile life," as a silver lining. I find it problematic that you ignore that and try to stuff a different position in my mouth above.

"Pretty much like a TED talk. Actually, if you look up TED talks about how to be an effective speaker, you will find the advice to talk in simple language and to use metaphors. Also, they advise you to throw in sentiments to which your audience will agree."

So intellectual pop chords and power riffs...

As for the quasi-alt-right flirtation a while back I started calling a lot of that stuff "intellectual edgelording." Some on the left are guilty of it too, but the far right has really mastered it.

How far we have fallen. We've got a long way to go

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