Hacker News Reader

Comment by AlexB138 | Hacker News Reader

From many conversations, and my personal experience, the reliability of prime for two day deliveries has gone way down. It's generally a day or two before the item even ships in my region. Amazon is also failing to handle rampant knock-offs mixed in with legitimate products.

It seems pretty brazen to increase the cost of Prime in light of those issues, even if it is only the monthly subscription. I'm sure it won't actually hurt them since they have such a strange-hold on online retail, and even with these issues they do still offer the best service by far, but it really seems like Amazon needs some competition.

View on HN

In Hawaii, Prime isn't two day, it's "free shipping within sorta 5-7 business days, for most of the stuff marked Prime". And even that has gotten unreliable.

When there's a range of delivery dates specified, it often seems designed to show up on the very last day of that range. A significant fraction of the time they haven't even shipped the thing by the first day of the delivery estimate.

There are also an increasing amount of items that say they are Prime but when you try to buy them, it says "it can't be shipped to your address". Sometimes it's understandable, like things that are very heavy or hazardous, like Li-ion batteries. Other times it's completely incomprehensible, like 1/8" pipe fittings. And Amazon customer service can't give any info, they just say "sorry, we're not going to be able to send you that thing."

I couldn't get them to send me an xbox controller in Hawaii. It's just infuriating. They could at least have the decency to let you filter items you can't get. The mismatch between their listed terms and what you actually get as a Prime customer in Hawaii is borderline fraudulent.

I'm considering putting together and sharing a script that could check your order history and delivery dates. They tend to give a free month of credit for late deliveries, but if I could show them "Well out of 12 months I've had late deliveries every month this year" I should just get the service for free.

You cannot expect a company to cater to such a small population. You choose to live there, you choose the consequences.

I can absolutely expect them to honor the terms that they themselves defined for a service that costs more than $100/year.

The terms state Free 2-day shipping to the contiguous US. It states 5 day shipping to Hawaii and Alaska

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

I suppose it could be more clear, but I do not see where they guarantee 2-day to Hawaii. You live on an island in the middle of the ocean, expect shipping delays.

Except that the OP was complaining that some items advertised aren't deliverable to Hawaii at all, not that they are deliverable with delays: "I couldn't get them to send me an xbox controller in Hawaii."

I don't really understand the instinct to jump on people complaining about receiving sub-par service compared to the promise given to them when they signed up. Amazon makes an absurd about of money, they could almost certainly do a better job here.

Except your being selective about what he said.

>I'm considering putting together and sharing a script that could check your order history and delivery dates. They tend to give a free month of credit for late deliveries, but if I could show them "Well out of 12 months I've had late deliveries every month this year" I should just get the service for free.

I'm talking about that bit.

Edit: I assumed he expected two day delivery. In his comment below he says he understands it's 3-7 and many come in 8-12, so my mistake.

They advertise 3-7 business days. For the past 3 months it's been more like ~8-11 business days. Nobody here has unrealistic expectations.

USPS would be much faster if they just dropped it in the mail within a couple days. It would also cost less than fedex overnighting items after waiting 2 weeks.

Well I'm with you there. I assumed you were talking about 2-day delivery, my mistake.

Indeed. It's gotten to the point that if I want something fast, I'll actually avoid Amazon and instead find some merchant who will ship the item USPS Priority Mail which is very reasonably priced and reliably arrives in 3 days.

The biggest problem are merchants that for some reason insist that they can only use UPS/Fedex, which is a complete ripoff to Hawaii. I don't understand how they get any business for their "ground" service here, given that it's usually about the same price as 2-day air but takes a week.

Amazon is choosing to offer Prime in Hawaii

Prime doesn't mean 2-day shipping for anyone anywhere. It says as much in the terms

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

Perhaps you missed the point that I and underbluewaters complained that they were not willing to ship things at all, or taking longer than their own stated timelines? None of us said we expected two-day shipping.

It's not like they're living on the moon, Hawaii is a U.S. state and they decided to accept customers from there.

Yeah, it's a state... which is an island in the middle of the ocean. Be at least a little realistic with your expectations. Also, their terms do not guarantee 2-day shipping to Hawaii or Alaska.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...

If their terms _guarantee_ 2-day shipping to contiguous US, does that mean there's some recourse to a customer when that is not met? Cause it is routinely not these days for many people I know.

Every time Amazon misses a guaranteed delivery date, I send a quick note to customer care and get a free month of Prime added to my account. Takes under a minute and I've never had to even respond a second time to one of these threads.

There are times when 2 days is not the guarantee, which is slightly annoying, but for most items, 2 days is.

So it's unrealistic to expect a multinational corporation to be competent enough to ship XBox controllers and eight-inch pipe fittings to their customers, if they're on an island? Because that's what the parent comment is talking about.

I also live on an island, and have the same problem getting random items shipped. My workaround is to order from a Marketplace seller listed in the sidebar instead. Normally I avoid them and buy direct from Amazon, but this works surprisingly well.

I've purchased all kinds of 'restricted' things this way, high-power magnets, chemicals, flammable aerosols, commercial-grade fire extinguishers, etc. I think Amazon's rule is mostly based on what can't go by air, since they want all options (ground/sea/air) available. I have no idea what method the third-party sellers actually use but everything shows up in plain brown boxes no problem. Try it some time, and just pay a couple bucks extra for shipping and avoid the hassle.

Is this satire?

You are complaining about free shipping speed to an island 2,400 miles off the coast of California

Except it's not "free" shipping. It is a contract for prepaid shipping where they then renege on that contract for various items for no explainable reason.

I agree that they shouldn't promise what they can't provide, but it is hardly inexplicable.

That it isn't inexplicable isn't in question. It is, however, unacceptable given promises made (voluntarily) by Amazon marketing about the nature of the service.

Prime shipping is 3-7 business days for Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico. So 5-7 days is within what they promise.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/help/id=201118070

Damn. In the UK it's free next-day.

I've had almost the exact opposite experience. I often get Prime deliveries the next day, even when I order in the late afternoon or evening.

I'm in Southern California, so maybe the greater density here means different systems ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also in SoCal, I get a mix of both. Usually two days, sometimes one, sometimes it says it is out for delivery on that second day but then they end up not delivering it.

From what I understand, the Amazon delivery people are contractors who are paid to deliver as much as they can. If they can't get to everything that day before 9pm, you don't get your package.

It has only really hurt me a couple of times where I ordered something for a trip, and it didn't arrive in time.

It seems like it's regional, based on replies here. It seems everyone on the west coast gets pretty good delivery times. I'm in a major metro on the east coast, and my experience is shared by a lot of my friends.

I personally don’t even track my delivery times. I order things off amazon so quickly that most of the time when I get a package I had forgotten what I ordered, let alone exactly when I ordered it. It’s nice that packages come in two days but I often don’t really need something that fast so I don’t pay attention. I will continue paying happily for Prime.

I'm failing to see how your anecdote about how you're happy to pay for something you admittedly don't care about is relevant.

Amazon, when considering whether to raise the price of prime, probably gathered a lot of information about how consumers would respond. Matte_black’s experience mirrors my own.

When I order something from Prime with 2-day shipping, it’s sometimes late, and sometimes shows up the next morning. It’s fast enough on average that I feel the price is easily worth it. If I really need something ASAP I’ll pay the extra few dollars for the one-day shipping (which would cost a lot more without Prime).

They’d have to raise the price a lot more to lose me as a customer. If there are a lot of customers like me and matte_black, it makes sense for them to raise the price.

By the way, if you do complain about late packages, they will give you a month of free Prime for each complaint or even put $10 as a credit in your account. So if it’s worth your time to complain, you could get Prime for free. It’s kind of like cloud provider who breaks SLA.

In addition, there's also a very clear contradiction in their statement, specifically how they "often don’t really need something that fast" but yet they will continue paying happily for Prime. Maybe they only care about the other Prime services and not the shipping?

+1 on more late Prime deliveries than there used to be.

FWIW, you can request a free month of Prime anytime you get a Prime order late (up to 12 times per subscription renewal, from what I've read). I've done it a few times already; once you find the customer service page, it's pretty painless.

Awesome tip, but I feel like I'm still shit out of luck with any Amazon purchase sent via USPS. Their drivers mark all their Amazon Prime packages as delivered if it's end of day. I've had multiple Amazon deliveries that were "delivered at 7:59pm at normal mail reception desk" that they then delivered the following day

EDIT: Just want to make it clear that this isn't my isolated experience -- http://www.cbs46.com/story/36856477/mail-carriers-usps-warns...

Yeah same here - except with fedex who wont even try to deliver. They'll just sneak up and leave tags saying they attempted.

When I asked amazon about it they really didn't want to do much but I was able to get them to block using their own drivers who were completely clueless on what an entrance to a building looks like (tip: it's not the emergency exit door...)

Sometimes I comparison shop at other online stores. It has not been uncommon to find the cost for an item at another store plus shipping is equal to or less than buying it with Amazon Prime. Am I really paying for movies and music which I hardly use?

Amazon has been so consistent for me and given me such great customer service that I still buy from them even when they aren't the lowest price. I'm a pretty loyal customer.

What?? Amazon Prime is a killer value! Netflix is $11/month and Spotify is $10/month. Sure, those services are definitely better than Prime Video and Music, but I still use Amazon's offerings a similar amount so the $13/month bundle feels like a great value at 40% lower cost. And this doesn't even count the services I don't use like free Kindle books or Twitch game discounts.

Not to mention the faster delivery times... The real benefit there has been changing the way I shop and think about shopping. I think I save massive amounts of time by almost never going to stores again. Even if the time savings is moot in the end, the psychological benefit of never having to go to stores has been wonderful. How much is that worth? I don't know, but it feels like almost zero cost given the value I get from Prime Video and Music (again, I admit that those services aren't "great").

> Sure, those services are definitely better than Prime Video and Music

Not for me wrt Netflix vs Prime Video. The latter is much better if you value movies over shows and quantity over quality especially for older movies.

This is actually my biggest problem with Prime: it feels like a bunch of substandard services, most of which I don't need, bundled together. If I'm not going to use free Kindle books or Twitch discounts (and I'm not), their value to me is $0. If Amazon Music doesn't have the songs I want to hear, and I have to keep paying for Spotify for those, then its value to me is $0. Prime's value is mostly free shipping, and it feels like the rest is just promotional fluff (maybe with the exception of Prime Video, which has some well-regarded original content).

But it's all shades of gray. While you might like Prime Video - others may find it useless but enjoy the free Kindle books or Twitch discounts or other included offers.

Personally, I order enough things throughout a year that Prime pays for itself in shipping costs. Any additional items are just that to me. Nice to have, especially since I'm not being charged extra, but are not why I'm paying.

> Nice to have, especially since I'm not being charged extra, but are not why I'm paying.

That's not how it works. Just because you aren't being billed by line item, you are being charged more. Those services come at a cost to them, and instead of being amortized across the users that benefit, they're being amortized across all users.

Case in point: this price increase. I'm sure it factors into account the price of all those services you aren't using/didn't sign up for Amazon Prime for. But you're paying it anyway.

EDIT:

The best example of this is one of the biggest complaints about cable tv services: to get channel x, you have to purchase a bundle of 2000 other channels too, which "justifies" an insane price of $80 more a month or whatever just for that one channel. The rationale is "but you're getting 20001 channels, not one, for that price!" and that's exactly what you're seeing here.

Only true without grandfathered pricing or with actual price increases. I've paid the same price for Prime as when I first bought into it, even as additional items have been added for what I have been paying.

My example is more like:

I pay $80 for 200 channels.

2 years later I still pay $80 for 200 channels and 50 other channels that have been added.

3 years later I still pay $80 for 250 channels and 10 on-demand movies

4 years later I still pay $80 for 250 channels, 10 on-demand movies, and their new music channels

I've had Prime since day 1 and the price went from $75 or $79 to $100/year, so that isn't true (at least for me, in case it somehow is for you).

But in all cases, while your price for that channel hasn't increased, the market price for that channel has. Your son moves out and he can't get the package you're getting now on his own; you're an exception that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that - in general - this one service now costs that much more.

You're correct, I've only been a Prime customer for as long as it's been $99 annually, which was sometime in 2014 [0]. However, they've still added more to what Prime membership includes since that time so my statement remains true for myself.

>But in all cases, while your price for that channel hasn't increased, the market price for that channel has.

The only important factor for what I receive for what I'm paying is the price I'm paying. Other people's pricing is irrelevant. Other people's prices are not what I am paying and are not a factor in determining if I feel I am getting value for my money.

If I think Amazon Prime is worth $99/yr and not a cent more - then if they ever increase my pricing then I simply cancel my subscription and now they lose my $99/yr. If they grandfather me in since I've been paying $99/yr for years then they'll likely continue to receive my $99/yr as long as I feel the price is still justified for what I receive. If they begin removing things (eg: Prime no longer is 2 day shipping) then I cancel as I'd no longer be getting my money's worth.

I am not stating "forced bundles" are good - but just that I don't pay for Prime because of any of the extra bundled items and the price I have been paying for Prime has not increased even with additional items being added. Even if the price point was set some time in the past under the assumption of these items being added before they had ever been added - I had no knowledge of it and deemed $99/yr to be a fair price to pay at the time, so they are viewed as value adds even if they (technically) might not be.

[0] http://time.com/23172/amazon-prime-hikes-price-to-99/ (Amazon's official announcement is in the second sentence but is a lengthy URL with querystrings)

I used to feel this exact way, and I do still think there are more than a few of their services that are pretty paltry.

But with Prime video, not only do they have highly praised original content, they fill in gaps that Netflix and Hulu have, with content from the HBO catalog, as well as TV shows that Netflix doesn't carry.

Add to that, the shipping for me, while not perfect, any time I've done free same day shipping, it's there.

My only request would be that I would gladly trade some of my benefits (Amazon music for example, along with others) in exchange for some type of access to audible.com content.

It would be nice if you could configure these services a la carte, but I doubt that's in Amazon's financial interest.

I use Netflix all the time, every time I check Amazon video the landing page looks the same, no new shows or movies. In fact my video landing page has looked the same for a good 2 months now. I'm not sure if they haven't added anything new or they just suck at promoting the new additions...

I 100% agree! Every app of theirs show the same stuff. I can't tell yet if theyre copying Netflix on their initial landing page on a consistent basis, but I feel like they've let some aspect of discovery escape them.

Overall, I do love their library, but they could evangelize it in such a better way.

Yep, that's exactly my sentiment.

I signed up for Amazon Prime for a month trial, and it seems pointless.

There's no Amazon Netherlands, so ordering from Amazon Germany instead who do have a lot. Not everything is subject to free delivery with Prime though. They wrote next day delivery. It took them 3 days. I can already order a lot from Bol.com with free shipping from 20 EUR order, and free return S&H. I suppose this is where, internationally, there's going to be larger differences.

Already got Spotify, not switching.

Already got cable, Netflix, and HBO. Not gonna add another. Already can't consume all this.

Free ebooks, I got a Kobo w/o DRM.

Twitch I don't touch with a 10 pole feet. I use Steam primarily, and bought various games on sale but I don't have time for games.

If you're using two of these services though, and it'd mean you'd ditch the competitor, then Amazon Prime is already worth it.

> Amazon is also failing to handle rampant knock-offs mixed in with legitimate products

This is the only thing I worry about. Granted, I don't think I've personally ever gotten a knock-off but the fact that the possibility exists makes me much more cautious about ordering from amazon.

Some items are much more prone to being counterfeit than others.

If you order a Lego set, you're going to get a Lego set.

But when it comes to industrial stuff, I can't even shop there anymore. Anything labeled as OEM (batteries, auto parts, etc) is a prime candidate for counterfeiting.

where can one find a trustworthy website for batteries?

In both Oakland and Colorado, I have also seen very poor rates of successful 2-day Prime delivery. Often indeed, the item ships about 5 minutes before the "Item will arrive by 8pm today" commitment (and that message will continue to show well after 8pm and the item has not arrived).

I order things like food from Amazon (Soylent), and I have relied on the shipping. But it is awful. I would say about 50% of the time my package arrives late, by a day or even 3-4 days. It's insane to pay $100 a year for a service that absolutely does not meet its promises. Just call it 4 day delivery and we'll be good.

Amazon Prime is a scam. I'm a loyal customer because there are few alternatives, but they do not deliver the service that you pay for.

Amazon shipping can be terrible depending on where you live. Here in Hawaii they claim 3-7 business days which they regularly don't meet. The pattern I've noticed is that they wait until the very last moment to ship and then use priority overnight to try and meet that deadline. I think they do this to try and pool shipments but it never works out that way. I count on all orders taking a full two weeks to arrive.

I'd cancel Prime in a heartbeat if I had a remotely comparable alternative. They use to provide value in terms of making it easy to pick good products but the 3rd party seller thing has made this more difficult.

Unlike the other comments, I'd like to point out that I have had a similar experience with Amazon's 2-day shipping. I would claim that 1 in 3 packages have an issue of some sort that causes a delay.

Here in my area, 2-day Prime means 3-4 days. Their guaranteed delivery date is always 4 days away, but about half the time you'll get it in 3. But they still call it "two-day delivery"

I think it now means two days from when they hand it off to usps/ups/fedex. There has been considerable delay recently from when the package is "shipped" and when it's handed over. Probably due to them using their own trucks and simply using the other carriers as the last mile.

> From many conversations, and my personal experience, the reliability of prime for two day deliveries has gone way down. It's generally a day or two before the item even ships in my region. Amazon is also failing to handle rampant knock-offs mixed in with legitimate products.

I'm noticing that too. If I'm going to go with standard shipping, they'll wait on it for 2 weeks and then try to ship it the day before the end of the delievery estimation. (I live in Chicago, so theres absolutely no reason to do that other than spite)

> From many conversations, and my personal experience, the reliability of prime for two day deliveries has gone way down

Also they push Amazon Logistics on you, which is terrible. I've had so many problems with them. The worst thing is they removed the option to "de-prioritize" them for your deliveries, like you can with any other problem delivery service. So you're SOL if you, for instance, USPS knows how to do its job in your area.

USPS forges delivery times to avoid being caught delivering a Prime package late[1] (don't get me wrong, though; AMZL sucks)

[1] http://www.cbs46.com/story/36856477/mail-carriers-usps-warns... N.B. I've personally had this happen a couple times now.

We live less than 5 miles away from a major distribution center; same day is offered for just about everything, with everything else reliably arriving 1-2 days post order.

However, 2-day shipping is the only option available for most other places. I can see how Prime isn't as good of a deal for places like that.

I barely had issues with 2-day, 1-day or even same day Prime (not Prime Now) deliveries in the Sacramento area. Probably becasue we have a huge UPS & Amazon hub here.

once in a while they will miss the window but will notify right away and deliver it within the next day, pretty early in the day

Only a couple times over years have I gotten packages late. Contacting Amazon about it, they gave me a month of prime each time too.

I live almost in the middle of nowhere, except that I'm less than an hour away from a major shipping distribution center.

When the courier service has switched from Fedex to OnTrac, my previous experience of 2 days or less went to 3 days minimum with the occasional "Whoops we gave it to the wrong person" thrown in for good measure.

I've only had 2 shipping delay issues with Amazon Prime in the last 4 years. Recently the option for 1 day shipping for a minimal fee or free has only made it better in my eyes.

That said, I do live in the Greater Seattle area.

Denver Metro here, I don't think Amazon have missed a two day window in at least a year. I've only had two misses in over three years of having a Prime sub.

Prime has only gotten better in my area, but that's a little biased, since I'm in Seattle. They can definitely jack up rates here with no issue.

I'm going to guess you're in the minority.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com