Snap lays off two dozen employees | Hacker News Reader

Snap lays off two dozen employees

cheddar.com

58 pointsminimaxir25 comments

Doesn't seem that large a number. According to Wikipedia they employ 1,859.

Agreed, Snap is a big company with high compensations. This could just mean letting bottom 1.5% go based on the performance reviews.

No, but it is interesting that the layoffs are concentrated in the "content" division. Maybe a sign of where the company wants to head (or not head) next.

Filters and Bitmoji nonsense fun!

Kind of unrelated, len("two dozen") vs. len("24") doesn't seem very efficient.

"Two dozen" gives a sense that it's not a precise number, corroborated by the use of the word "roughly" in the lede.

Snap still hasn't found its place. Although Spiegel is, in many ways, in an enviable position (extremely wealthy in his 20s), he also isn't. Facebook basically decimated Snapchat stories, and Snapchat is trying to become my generation (and the next's) Us Weekly. I think most people bet on them as a social media and technology company, not a tabloid rag.

But user acquisition is down, the Spectacles were a flop, and their new re-design has been met with a resounding "meh." I'm curious what their next move will be. These layoffs might be a sign of things to come.

In my (early 20s, fairly normal) circles Facebook Stories is seldom used, and Snapchat is actively used. Just not the parts that Snap wants us to use (i.e. anything besides the core product).

Sorry, should've been clearer, I mean Instagram (FB owns it) -- most of my friends (early-20s to early-30s) use Instagram. A minority use Snapchat.

They should take a leaf out of the Telegram playbook. Snap cash was in the right direction.

Did anyone else find the coder vs engineer analogy strange? Especially given that this was presumably sent out to the whole company.

I didn't. Coders are often mistaken for engineers and in the Bay Area especially there is a strong emphasis on coding ability over engineering ability. Coding and Engineering are different skills.

The memo is a bit too dismissive of coders: to me it makes them seem as though they're inferior, less aggressive, or less able pseudo-engineers.

Can you expand more on what, in your opinion, is the difference between a coder and an engineer?

Even legally, there's a difference. For example, if I was only a coder or programmer, I could not work in the US, as my work permit is ineligible to those professions. You have to be an engineer instead, software or systems or network or security engineer for example.

The difference is that a programmer is someone who knows how to program a computer in one or more languages. An engineer find ways to apply mathematical and computer science theory to real world problems. It knows how to navigate the real world constraints of limited resources to provide optimal return. It has a basic knowledge of ethics and takes it into account. It can lead and direct teams of coders and help them more effectively solve a business's problems. Its aware of existing technologies and can design ways to solve new problems through architecting those technologies in new ways. Finally, an engineer is a qualified professional in an engineering discipline, so it has accredited paperwork.

But, its all mostly BS in that lots of people with programmer or coder titles do all that, and lots of people with engineering titles don't. It was mostly introduced so that software be taken more seriously.

What is your source for this? As far as I know, there is no official designation for "software engineer" in the US. Nor any official certifications or accredited programs. Computer science is the degree programs most take.

As far as visas are concerned, what would the criteria be to verify a software engineer instead of a programmer.

My source was mostly my lawyer consultations. I tried to find online sources, I think this link is good: https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-visa-engineer

Under Nafta, programmer or coder is not an approved listed profession. Engineer is. It does not list the sub-category of Engineer, so Software Engineer is normally included. To qualify as an engineer you need to meet the accredited requirements, which are either an engineering license, an engineering degree or a minimum 3 year bachelor's degree. As stated in the linked article, the INS is sometimes more strict, and only accepts licensed engineers or engineering bachelors, even though that can be contested.

Now if you read this link: https://www.tnvisabulletin.com/nafta-tn-blog/2016/7/14/2016/...

You see it specifies that the USCBP considers a job role where the majority of the work involves coding does not qualify as a software engineering role. That would be a computer programmer role instead, which is not approved for TN work permits.

If you look at OOH, they distinguish between computer programmer and software developer. The latter role description is what Software Engineer role should also be like, I couldn't find a source, and OOH doesn't list software engineer, but it matches up with what I was told by lawyers.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

If you look at the number of people employed in each of those job classifications, Software Developers have 1.25 million and are expected to increase by 300k in the next 10 years while Programmers have 295k and are expected to decrease by 22k in the next 10 years. So "Programmers" is already only 20% of the total and is expected to decrease to 15%.

Looks to me like those are rules created in the context of NAFTA. I don't believe there are any such restrictions or rules in the US outside of that specific VISA program.

I agree... I don't know Spiegel but I've heard that its very top - down in terms of what needs to be done and product managers lead decisions on what needs to be done. If an engineer has a recommendation to actually improve better news, I doubt it would be heard and fall on deaf ears to what Evan or product would think is a better use of "Engineering" time.

yeah, s--ting on your engineering team because your business plan and product are garbage is sure going to boost morale and get things back on track. What a joke.

* edit *

not to imply that he isn't right. his engineering team probably is s--t because no one good would work for him.

Interesting that around the same time both Facebook and Snapchat are turning their focus away from sponsored content and focusing on friends.

Perhaps it was the team that pushed out the latest UI update. Honestly, it is so bad that nearly all my friends have stopped using it for stories.

Oh, Snap!

(Somebody had to do it)

Stick a fork in them, they're done!

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