Hacker News Reader

Comment by lev99 | Hacker News Reader

Counter point -- Tipping is a way to insure excellent service on return visits to service oriented establishments.

I seem to receive worse service in the US than in almost any other country I've been to.

Other countries: you get the waiter's attention when you want to order something. Normally, it goes smoothly and they leave you alone.

US: the waiter comes over every five minutes to check on you, annoying you and interrupting conversations. They pretend to be nice and overly friendly, and often flirt with you for money. Alternatively, they might forget to check on you, but social norms engendered by the behavior of the group that do make it seem rude to wave or call to get their attention.

Worst of all, the waiter is incentivized to turn over as many tables as possible so they do everything in their power to hurry you through your meal.

Assuming that you are correct in your assessment that the U.S. generally has poor service, that fact would not necessarily contradict the above poster's point that tipping results in higher-quality service in the U.S. You are applying standards from other countries and cultures and assuming that it would work just as well over here. How American of you! :)

Edit: This is a more general comment that addresses the conceit that the tipping system is merely a way for restaurant owners to pocket more money for themselves. This idea is simply ludicrous, given the staggeringly-thin margins in the business. I have no words to describe my disdain for the kneejerk reaction to attack job-creators at every turn.

As a counter counter point, there are places which don't take tips, and they offer some of the best customer service in the world.

Japan is a good example. In the food service industry, establishments will usually put their own service charge which they think is reasonable onto the bill (usually a small amount). They don't expect (many will refuse to take) further tips because they price the cost to serve into it.

My example is clearly assuming the customer is in the United States. I don't think we can copy a few things about Japan's food service industry and expect to have a similar dining experience here. Culture is too complex for that to work.

Japan's entire service industry always leaves me pleased.

Got an example within the US? Because your example just seems like Japanese culture - which isn't going to change in the US regardless of tips.

In reality the tip the customer leaves is dependent on the weather, the gender, race, and attractiveness of the server, the noise level of the restaurant, and the number one determination: the amount of the check!

Plus other factors...

Quality of service only makes up 1-5% of the amount of the tip received.

Furthermore, even if tips "insure excellent service," since tip pooling is standard operating procedure, then it doesn't accomplished that goal.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/07/abol...

So tipping is just another word for what we might in other contexts describe as low-level corruption.

When I give a tip, it's a gift. I don't expect anything back from it.

And the wait staff has so much control over restaurant cleanliness, food quality and temperature etc etc etc...

The tip goes to the wait staff. The bill goes to the chief/ingredients/building upkeep/owner. Tipping won't improve the entire experience, but it can improve the service.

If the service can be improved, but can only be improved by bribing staff to do their job properly, that's a terrible indictment of the hospitality business.

Tips rarely go to only the wait staff. Most restaurants pool their tips (for accounting/tax tracking), and share them with busboys, hostesses, wait staff, line cooks, and even dishwashers. At the restaurant I worked at in the 80's, the management even skimmed some for themselves.

Only if you see the exact same wait staff, places with high turnover make past tipping meaningless.

True, there are limitations. It's not a super power.

So, I assume you never tip when traveling?

Of course I tip when traveling. Not providing a normal tip when accepting a service is breaking the social contract and anti-social.

I do tip more at places I frequent.

Then you are conceding the point you are countering.

I concede there is a non-trivial number of cases in which my counter-point is irrelevant.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com