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Comment by ravivooda | Hacker News Reader

I would have agreed with you that conservative spending is a good thing a year ago. But, after ready many economics books and data analyzing many other countries including USA, China etc. I'm convinced that non-conservative spending would/could improve businesses and overall progress (GDP, Health, Living Index) of a country. I feel like India is missing out on this by a long margin. If you compare the number of business loans and the amount (personal loans, other loans as well) across many countries it might show what I wanna point out.

Any thoughts?

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> Any thoughts?

Yes. My thought is that when one is planning for others to live a certain way to benefit society, that telling them to go into debt to benefit society may work over the long term over a large population. However, this only "works" if you treat people as interchangeable numbers, and if too many of the people deviate from your plan, the debt driven society will stop working as planned.

However, when one runs their own budget which needs to last through the ups and down, and presumably get one into a better place than they started, saving or investing is better than going into debt.

Just because there are multiple books advocating you spend your money ... well - the old adage is, "Don't believe everything you read."

> Yes. My thought is that when one is planning for others to live a certain way to benefit society, that telling them to go into debt to benefit society may work over the long term over a large population. However, this only "works" if you treat people as interchangeable numbers, and if too many of the people deviate from your plan, the debt driven society will stop working as planned.

Agree very much!

> However, when one runs their own budget which needs to last through the ups and down, and presumably get one into a better place than they started, saving or investing is better than going into debt.

I think I should have clarified, I'm talking from a Macroeconomic perspective, when spending boosts economies and saving could lead to devastating deflation. But, on a Microeconomic perspective, totally agree with you.

> Just because there are multiple books advocating you spend your money ... well - the old adage is, "Don't believe everything you read."

Thank you sir for reminding me :)

How do people buying (for example) expensive coffee at Starbucks improve "Health, Living Index"? Can you walk me through the process?

Well, off the top of my head, expensive coffee at Starbucks usually has better nutrition than road-side chai stalls, in terms of milk dilution, calcium content, etc. which leads to stronger bones, fewer fractures and we enter the cycle of health improvement (Refer Poor Economics by Abhijit Banerjee). This is just something I just came up with.

I'm not arguing that expensive spending per se will improve living standards, but they do tend to boost markets, create new markets, improve the standard of living etc. Debt is one such expensive spending

Buying an expensive coffee from the largest coffee brand in the world will not open new markets, increase competetion, etc. That seems tautological

What will do what you seem to want is buying from the 'road-side chai stalls' you say are dangerous?? Which is a pretty strange claim to make but I can almost see where you're coming from

I was trying to explain why buying expensive nutritious coffee compared to buying road-side chai stalls, specifically the people who can afford the former but chose the later thanks to the conservative nature, can improve health, in turn, living conditions.

That said, I'm not saying Starbucks is making us better. But a chai chain, nutritious chai stalls, is long pending for India. It's not dangerous, but we are better off choosing the expensive chai in the long run, in my opinion.

How much milk does coffee have to make a meaningful impact. What about sugar in coffee, we Indians love sugar.

What about the fact that most Indians are lactose intolerant?

I think my example would still apply?

You are better off opting the expensive coffee with the alternative options for lactose intolerant people (soy milk etc.) when compared to buying milk from the road-side stalls (right?)

I have been having coffee almost daily for the past three years and I see a significant improvement in my bones and joints. I can feel it and pointed out by the doctor. Note, I take the coffee with whole milk and not the half-and-half or other kind.

So I would guess it does affect in the long run? Personally it did for me. Not sure at a Macro level.

> I have been having coffee almost daily for the past three years and I see a significant improvement in my bones and joints.

I can't believe you are serious, you cannot just make such wild claims without any evidence.

Why don't you do an experiment, cut coffee from your diet while keeping your rest of the diet same with moderate exercise. I guarantee you there wont be any significant degradation in your bones.

Ping me in three years.

I think I was trying to point out, debt-driven economics is not such a bad option

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