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Comment by Tloewald | Hacker News Reader

No it’s just beholden to one or another of them.

> windlep 0 minutes ago [-] I was under the impression the search deals are merely which engine are the default. How does having the default search be Google make the Mozilla corp beholden to Google?

Well, when someone pays your paycheck, that makes you beholden to them. Unless you don't want another paycheck.

PS I didn't downvote you.

The person that pays my paycheck tells me what to do. The only thing Mozilla was told to do in the contract with Google is to have them as the default search engine.

Besides for the search engine requirement per contract, how is Mozilla's product beholden to Google?

I'm somewhat surprised that was downvoted, as I thought people knew how these contracts were arranged and what they included. They're about the default search engine placement, that's it. Google obviously doesn't get to provide input/requirements into Mozilla product design, marketing, etc.

I was under the impression the search deals are merely which engine are the default. How does having the default search be Google make the Mozilla corp beholden to Google?

If the search engine is unhappy, they will pay less money to be the default.

Then another search engine will happily take the that browser's market share.

Which search engine might that be? Last time I looked, Google operated a de facto monopoly.

Maybe for less money, then your colleagues will get fired and your salary will be cut etc.

Whenever your earnings depends on someone giving you money, whether it's through advertising or a grant, it's quite normal and common you'll be very careful not to upset them. At least you'll think twice before doing so.

If Google is paying what Yahoo was, it's $300 million a year for the default search option on Firefox. Google pays Apple billions to stay the default on the iPhone as well.

Ok, so that makes Mozilla beholden to them how exactly? Is Google calling up Mozilla asking them to do them favors in the product? Are Mozilla engineers being asked to write in special features that Google asks for?

Yes, Google provides 90% of the revenue or somewhere around there. But I still haven't heard how exactly Mozilla is doing special favors to Google or is in some way beholden to it.

Mozilla has a contract with Google to be the default search provider for a set period of years. I have never heard of anything else being in there that allows Google to make any product requests on Mozilla.

How come no one wants to say how exactly Mozilla is doing what Google wants?

Mozilla’s bizarre stance on H264 coincidentally favored Google’s position. Mozilla’s anti-ad-tracking stuff was all switched off by default. They make their money from ads meaning their incentives parallel those of ad networks.

All ad supported products have bad incentives. It’s the same reason HBO and Nerflix produces great TV shows and ad based broadcast and cable networks mainly produce garbage.

So if Google stopped paying Apple, what would they do? Switch to Bing? I'm sure their users would love that </s>

Given that Apple had been using Bing for search from 2014-2017, I'm not sure users actually care that much.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/25/apple-switches-from-bing-t...

That article is about Siri web search.

search engines pay for 80% of mozilla's cheques, so search engines have 80% control over mozilla's income, which is a bit iffy, especially for something meant to be community controlled and directed (non profit open source right?)

What I don’t understand is why are there no paid browsers? I’d pay $xx(x?) for a browser where I’m the customer, not the product. Every open-source browser is either awful and outdated, or is beholden to outside interests, or internal monetization strategy.

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