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Comment by rkachowski | Hacker News Reader

I'd never heard of this before. Growing up in rural Scotland, meals were always "Breakfast", "Dinner" and "Tea". There was sometimes confusion with other people over whether dinner was a midday or evening meal, but I'd never thought much of it until now.

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I'm also originally from rural Scotland (around Tomintoul), for us it was "Breakfast", "Dinner" and "Supper".

Upon moving to the central belt, and ingratiating myself into more middle class circles of friends I then discovered:

Breakfast - eaten usually when you get up in the morning, say early morning until ~1030am

Lunch - eaten from 12pm until ~2:30pm

Afternoon Tea - taken from around 3:30pm until 4:30pm (cakes/biscuits [cookies] and would also include some kind of sandwich - often cut into triangles)

Tea - 5pm until 6pm - usually a lighter two course meal (say an omlette) and some pudding (desert).

Dinner - taken from 7pm until perhaps 9pm - this would be a fully laiden two or three course meal.

Supper - taken from around 10pm until around 11pm (or just before bedtime) - likely cheese on toast or crackers & cheese and a cuppa.

Obviously you don't need to have every one of these meals every day of the week.

I see where Tolkien got his inspiration for Hobbit meals...

He's actually missing out elevenses and brunch.

Damn, forgot about brunch. Too late to edit in now. I left out elevenses because that's really just a cup of tea and a rich tea or digestive. I feel you need a bit more than that for it to be classified as a proper meal.

Yes and frunch!

And then there is "Second Breakfast". Or was that only in the movies?

I've heard "Second Breakfast" is actually a thing with farmers, i.e. they get up super early (say 4am) to feed the livestock or do some other such thing (cow milking?) and they have a lightish breakfast - a cuppa, some cereal or maybe toast. Then later on, say 730am-8am, once these tasks are done and dusted, they head back to the farmhouse where they have a more hearty affair - sausages, bacon, eggs.

A bit further south, Yorkshire in England, but yea the language is the same there.

In spanish I think all countries agree on at least: desayuno (breakfast), comida (lunch), cena (dinner) as the three basic. But we also have merienda and almuerzo which get different times and portions depending on country.

And there can be other terms of course. In Guadalajara, México, where I live, schools say "hora del lonche" (lunch time) to the midday meal.

Interesting. In Puerto Rico, comida meant food and almuerzo meant lunch.

'La Comida' as the main meal of the day at approximately lunchtime is a Castillian term and generally a Spanish (in the sense of: people that live in Spain) practice. The practice and this sense of the term 'comida' aren't common in Latin America, in my experience.

'Desayuno, comida y cena' is how people refer to the main meals in the Dominican Republic, 'almuerzo' is also used to mean lunch but mostly in formal settings. I also just asked a Colombian friend and he says 'comida' is mostly used to refer to dinner, and 'almuerzo' for lunch.

Edit: He also says 'cena' is a more formal, less common way to refer to dinner.

Lunch is most commonly "almuerzo" in my experience, with some variation. I think there are some Europeans and perhaps pockets of Latin Americans who use "comida" to refer to either lunch or dinner as a meal, while most people use it to refer to food in general. Dinner is "merienda" in some places, while many others reserve the common "cena" for dinner and use "merienda" to refer to an afternoon snack.

My kid's learning Spanish in school and she learned: desayuno, almuerzo, cena.

Google translate translates lunch first as almuerzo and second as comida if you try it.

What about second breakfast and elevenses?

In the North of England and Scotland it's usually Breakfast, Dinner, and Tea. If you go down South it's Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner.

And sometimes if you're really lucky you'll meet a Southerner who'll freak out about it, "Ha! You said 'dinner' but you meant 'lunch'!! Ha! Ha! When do you eat your lunch?! Ha Ha!!"

I had an old boss that did this regularly. The dick.

We usually have one main meal, and another that is lighter and more like a snack.

If you have the main meal in the middle of the day then it is called "dinner". The snack you have at the end of the afternoon is "tea".

If you have the main meal at the end of the afternoon it is "dinner". The snack you eat in the middle of the day is "lunch".

The difference probably depends on if you go home for a meal at mid-day or not. The later is probably more traditional as people used to work or study much closer to home. And there was somebody around during the day to prepare a meal. But nowadays going home for a main meal in the middle of the day is unusual so we all just have a small snack.

It can be confusing when other languages get added to the mix, because they don't necessarily follow that convention. E.g. in Russian, you traditionally translate the main meal of the day as "dinner" in English - but it's actually eaten early in the afternoon (usually around 1pm), so it's more like lunch in that regard, and honestly should probably just be rendered as such. I often found that whenever I would refer to "dinner" in my conversation, my (native English speaking) friends would automatically assume the end-of-the-afternoon meal; and the idea of having a dinner with colleagues implies some sort of highly formal event.

On the other hand, the after-work evening meal is usually less heavy, and is rendered as "supper" in English. And, again, I find that Americans usually assume that it takes place much later than it normally does, and is also much lighter than it normally is (basically a snack rather than a proper meal), if I use that word.

So clearly there is some implicit time-of-day mapping there.

Thanks, that was very informative.

I was always told that dinner (from "dine") is the main meal of the day. So if you have a 'fancy' afternoon meal that can be your dinner (e.g. we usually do Christmas dinner between 3 and 4).

I wonder if HN knows of a linguistic map for meal names, it appears that these words shift meaning a lot.

EDIT: I thought this was interesting -- "Harvard's Dialect Survey had the question, 'What is the distinction between dinner and supper?' Here's the geographic distribution of their results from 10,661 American respondents" https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22446/lunch-vs-d...

I don't think it's as easy as geography, it depends on your parents upbringing too.

One other great British-English question is "what do you call an individually portioned baked bread article" ... roll, barm, bap, cob, ...

Breadcake

Scottish git here....rolls (or maybe morning rolls if posh). But where I'm from in Scotland you'd ask for "softies" otherwise you'd get a slightly harder well-fired roll if there was a choice.

Or "How do you pronounce 'scone'?"

The slightly snooty Daily Telegraph style guide:

"Christmas lunch is what most of our readers would eat, not Christmas dinner. Use the latter only if referring specifically to an evening meal."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/143530...

(Being slightly facetious) This confirms my suspicion that the Telegraph caters to a very small minority:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Christmas+lunc...

Also this:

https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=Christmas%20lun...

Even in Southern England (Cambridge), I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "Christmas lunch".

If you're ready for Christmas dinner at lunchtime there was something wrong with Christmas breakfast.

I find this particular stuff fascinating.

In spanish you have 3 distinct meals, 'desayuno' 'almuerzo' and 'cena' mapping strictly to a moment of the day, more or less 'breakfast' 'lunch' and 'dinner', with the option of a merienda (roughly 'tea' but usually just sweet food like cookies or some such) between lunch and dinner. Each of this happens on a specific moment of the day (morning, noon, the optional afternoon thing and well into nighttime).

Are there other languages/dialects where the word maps the importance of the meal instead of the actual time it is consumed?

In my part of the world (Nova Scotia, Canada), "dinner" often means either lunch or the largest meal of the day. When planning for Christmas dinner I've found myself asking, "Lunch dinner or supper dinner?"

I grew up in England and it was similar. Growing up Dinner was the hot meal using taken in the middle of the day either at school (dinner ladies), or at work (I imagined hot meals servers in factories or canteens). And tea (teatime!) was cold/lighter possibly taken with tea, essentially late afternoon tea, followed by supper later in the evening. Pretty sure it’s still like this in many places.

At some point dinner transitioned to lunch and teatime to dinner for us.

We (USA) say breakfast, lunch, and dinner, though my grandparents would say supper instead of dinner sometimes. I wonder where/when the split occurred.

Same here (also USA). My parents (born 1930s) say breakfast, lunch, dinner. My grandparents (born 1900s) said breakfast, dinner, supper. My grandmother asserted that her usage was more proper.

I think you’ll find supper in common usage in the US but always as the same meal as dinner which is the evening meal.

Dinner is definitely most common near me but I wouldn’t blink if someone asked me over for supper or said it’s supper time.

There is tons of disagreement about this stuff, as it varies so much region to region, but in general, in most English peaking places:

The three meals are "Breakfast", "Lunch" and "Supper". And if Lunch or Supper is the biggest/most formal meal of the day it may be called "Dinner" instead. Hence family "Christmas Dinner" may be at lunch time, but your "Dinner party" is in the evening.

Thanks, I was always confused about why people talk about having "Thanksgiving Dinner" in the early afternoon and now it makes perfect sense.

I have only encountered “supper” as the name of a primary meal in parts of the USA. I think “breakfast, lunch, dinner” likely is the most widespread formulation. I never heard “supper” in Australia or Canada at all.

Its all highly regional, but I believe my characterization is an accurate generalization. Checkout the "Word Origin and History for X" for:

1. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supper 2. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dinner

Interesting side note, Sup (verb) the root word for supper has been in the (old) English language since before 900 AD.

FWIW, I was taught "breakfast", "dinner", "supper" at school, and their English courses were supposed to closely follow British usage (although I'm not sure which regional dialects, if any specific ones, they tracked in practice). We were taught "lunch" as well, but it was treated more like a second breakfast.

In farms in Ireland its typically Breakfast - Dinner - Tea. Where your main meal of the day (dinner) is around 12-1pm and the evening meal (tea) is light. Your occasional cup of tea before bed is supper.

Outside of farming people have their main meal (dinner) when they come home from their office in the evening. So the lighter meal in the afternoon becomes lunch and theres no tea.

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