Teslasuit – full body haptic VR suit | Hacker News Reader

Teslasuit – full body haptic VR suit

teslasuit.io

138 pointspablode104 comments

Hey all,

Denis, Teslasuit Marketing Director here. Looking forward to your questions!

as for feedback for users - we have it on Youtube - just google it by keyword phrase "Teslasuit VR haptic suit at DevGAMM 2017 Minsk"

as for prefix Tesla - we using it due to the fact that we are using current (EMS and TENS) to provide haptic (sense of touch)

as for electricity: yes, we are using TENS and EMS to provide haptic sensations

as for security: yes. we have 2 security system built in the Teslasuit (software level and hardware level)

PS. I can't answer so fast to other questions due to limitation of the Hacker News, but promise - I will answer to all your questions a bit more later

Link which was not given in the parent for some reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5bOsUFb-4

Here is a link to another video where a guy wears the suit, has it setup, and gets 'touched'.

https://youtu.be/BBePpDsdzLw?t=148

Estimate for what the cost is going to be, initially and eventually?

When are you changing the name?

I think this is snark, but I'm curious for a serious answer to this question. Tesla is such a loaded name in the tech space, you can't possibly hope to keep that in the brand.

I get hives from heat and large temperature differences. What consideration have you taken of malicious use of climate control?

Don't TENS electrodes require touching the skin directly?

Having used a TENS system before, yes. And if there's imperfect contact, it stings like a bastard.

Looks interesting. Some practical questions: :)

• Sizing wise, how're you thinking to handle different sized people. For example, I'm about 155cm (just over "5 foot" in imperial). That's fairly short compared to many North Americans.

• Power and signal transport. On the YouTube video there seems to be a back attachment with a WiFi logo. Does that mean the suit itself will be untethered (battery powered)?

• If it's untethered, do you have estimates for how long it'll generally go between charges (for the first generation)?

• Will the SDK and/or drivers be Open Source (of any license)?

I second the sizing question, but I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum at 6'5".

Sizing: we are creating different sizes from XS to XXL Power and signal transport: Teslasuit fully untethered. Signal transmitting via Wi-FI. Battery is enough for 3-4 days of gaming (approx. 25-32 hours) SDK: not now, but we are thinking in this direction.

Thanks. Hopefully for the arms at least, the sensors can be some moved around.

Even with "standard" sizes like that, I always need to get clothes tailored as the arms and legs are still too long. :)

Open Sourcing drivers/SDK wise: If you need someone to bounce ideas off of or just discuss things, you're welcome to ping me (justin@postgresql.org). Happy to sign reasonable NDA (etc) if needed.

How much discussion has there been, and are you expecting, for a fleshlight add on to the suit?

Hah! I built something similar (but very amateur) as my master thesis project: https://procrastinative.ninja/2015/02/19/sensation-suit/

I always wanted to use TENS and EMS but my professors were a bit cautious. Anyway I've learned a lot and it was a really fun project. I still have the suit and have currently lent it to a fellow student who want's to survey if and how it increases VR immersion. Very happy to see another professional go at this! Good luck guys!

I don't believe anything in the VR space until it starts to be demoed. Too much vaperware and marketing BS.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42574569 - newest video about Teslasuit from BBC :)

The suit literally shocks the person wearing it? Looks unpleasant - do you anticipate any safety issues?

It would be unpleasant if your VR text editor shocked you, sure. Might make for a fun game mechanic though.

1. Add a (python/js/whatever) linter plugin to the VR text editor, which will deliver a shock for violating linting rules;

2. ???

3. Profit!

You seem to be affiliated with them. My advice would be to demo asap and as much a possible. I am sure it is hard with a suit like that, but it's the only way people aren't gonna think it is vaperware.

have a look, here is a lot of feedback after the demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5bOsUFb-4

Now it just needs a helmet with oxygen control and we can fully simulate dying in Elite Dangerous.

But seriously, that's probably the first thing I'd go for with regards to temp control. Elite cockpits look like a sauna if you overheat your ship.

That's quite some anterior pelvic tilt on the lady! Good thing she's going to be getting more standing in now.

Wow this is so cool. Really makes me feel like I'm living in the future.

Not sure that naming it tesla was a good idea though.

right, riding the Tesla keyword is so 2010, they should have gone with MLsuit.io or blockchainSuit.io. Okay it felt good to write, go ahead and downvote me you mofos

Why not unlock your potential with the Cryptosuit?

So brave

Would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stop violating the site rules?

Will this be as successful as all of the preceding gaming TENS products?

2005: http://www.mindwire-v5.com/home.html

2007: https://www.geek.com/games/new-gaming-vest-allows-players-to...

2010: https://www.wired.com/2010/03/gaming-vest-makes-virtual-figh...

http://www.korfx.com/

and on and on and on

6 motion sensors for the torso but none for the fingers? Going to simulate chest bouncing?

gloves planned to be built within 4 months

lol

This is a solved problem you can buy right now and get an actual product.

https://neuronmocap.com/

No chest bouncing sensors though, unfortunately...

That did look interesting. eg:

https://neuronmocap.com/content/product/perception-neuron-li...

But, pretty much Windows only. :(

They do have one demo + their data reading SDK also working on OSX. Not really sure if that should be considered real OSX support though:

https://neuronmocap.com/downloads

Reading the license in the SDK, it's 100% proprietary. My interest completely died at that point.

"Teslasuit, n. A subpoena from Elon Musk's trademark attorneys"

That's not the way trademarks work.. Tesla has a trademark only in the fields they compete in: solar, cars, batteries. They can't stop you from starting Tesla Coffee Shop, or (in this case) Tesla VR suit.

Tesla VR suit name is creating a recipe for failure: if you think you can make a long-term viable VR suit company without ever using batteries (always tethered!) limits future growth potential greatly.

That's also not the way trademarks work. To violate Tesla's trademark they need compete in the battery market.

Trademarks don't get you rights to every market that utilizes the type of item you sell.

You're right. But, they don't need to be technically in violation for a lawsuit to still put them out of business.

A dash of legal ambiguity is often enough for a deep-pocketed company to cause a lot of pain, regardless of the letter of the law.

> they need compete in the battery market

There is no battery trademark category. Only electronics, which covers both batteries and this suit.

So yes, they do need to change their name.

I was mostly being facetious, but the reality is that things are a little more complicated than that in the trademark business.

The court will start by asking one question along the lines of, "Is there a good chance that a typical customer in the market for either product will be confused regarding the origin of the goods?" The weasel words in that question will leave plenty of room for argument on both sides.

(IANAL, but have had cause to look into this question recently.)

It is the way jokes work, however

> in the fields they compete in: solar, cars, batteries

Those are not trademark categories. Here's a list:

http://www.tmweb.com/trademark_classes.asp

In particular note Class 09, which covers solar and batteries AND this haptic suit.

> Streaming service

> Imagine a fully integrated, computer-free version, streaming content directly to the user’s virtual/augmented reality system, that would work together with Teslasuit and Teslaglove models remotely and wirelessly. Revolutionary streaming service SDK will blow your mind with it unlimited possibilities, provided on most high level ever.

Pffffft. All of this reads like imaginary, aspirational nonsense. Just someone tossing ideas onto a webpage.

> Platforms

> Native SDK for main platforms such as Linux, Windows and even Mac.

I appreciate that 2018's vaporware is prioritizing the Linux desktop.

new version of website is under construction, check back soon :)

It looks like you have some videos on youtube that make the product look interesting, such as:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5bOsUFb-4

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-cEEu3ZHU

You should probably consider putting these and any other similar content you have front and center on the website. As it is now it looks a little thin on actual proof and comes off sounding a bit vaporware-ish.

Every thread about something cool has a bunch of posts filled with unfounded skepticism.

Do you have a good reason to claim it's vaporware, or is it just cool to be controversial on HN? What does your pointless pessimism and negativity add to the conversation?

HN is a community of hackers who like tech, creating stuff, and building the future. Let's get excited about the new things and support our colleagues, instead of just instinctively dismissing anything new.

I don't think that's a fair accusation. I've been reading hacker news for several years and this is maybe the second time I've seen a new product and my first thought was "vaporware". There is something about the renderings and the half-baked content that gives off a strong sense of not being close to production. We could be wrong, but it does at least indicate that they need to do something about their public facing site if so.

Agreed.

Seconded.

The name does it for me. Clearly a cheap grab for some attention that would be aimed at Tesla Motors.

I thought it was vaporware too because of the straight out of Poser look. As beautiful as the rendering is. I dug through the Twitter feeds and this looks pretty real to me https://twitter.com/a_lyakhov/status/933276295668084736 https://twitter.com/real_teslasuit/status/951561726436225031

It’s a haptic suit for VR.

I couldn’t make a more buzzword-y, vaporware-sounding sentence unless I added the words “crypto” and “AI“ to it somehow.

What it adds to the conversation? That if you want to back such projects, you'd better be prepared to lose your money. There is no mention of crowdsourcing and preorders yet but if it happens, you have been warned.

I don't mean it is a scam, but it is definitely high risk. In fact I can only imagine to see it succeed if it is backed by a 800lb gorilla with money to burn. The obvious one would be the military.

The skepticism is well founded. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, put or shut up if you prefer.

This is a marketing page, there's been more than enough recent scams built on nothing but high quality marketing pages that you'd be incredibly gullible to believe them.

Any news from CES 2018? According to the blog it was meant to be unveiled there but I haven't seen anyone covering it.

It is there, but amongst the giant pile up of startups, it is hard to stand out. I would have paid more attention had I known it was of interest. :/

If you're at CES, it is in the bottom floor of the Sands just behind the Israel section.

I think if I was after experiences that immersive, and willing to go to that much trouble, then I would take up paintball, or join the society for creative anachronism or something.

You'll be able to do all of that virtually!

I'm interested in how the "weight simulation" works.

same here, i am very suspicious

we are using the same approach as that https://hpi.de/fileadmin/user_upload/fachgebiete/baudisch/pr...

Ever used a stim machine? Hope your contacts are perfect, and excrete their own conductive gel, and my god will this have to be properly sized.

Orherwise... ouch... fire ants.

Edit: Note that despite the differences between TENS and NMES do not extend to the effects of bad contact.

Thanks for replying, very interesting and best of luck!

Virtual Higgs bosons maybe?

The Three Body Problem game from Liu Cixin coming to life!

I feel like Ready Player One has a better presentation of haptic suits in VR environments.

This novel was amazing. I really enjoyed it.

Its already a pain in the ass to put on and set up the Vive...who's going to want to jump into a wet suit just to play video games?

The type of people who don't want to have get out of their wetsuit just to interact with the real world.

I know I definitely want to try this. I don't think I would ever buy one to have in my home, but it really would be cool to and fun to try.

> Motion capture and Positioning system I assume your suit uses IMU. How are you correcting for the sensor drift over time ?

as neat as this (likely vaporware) would be, i feel like just starting with something powerglove-esque and then extending up the arms would be easier and capture most of the value.

also, only two sensors per arm seems like it would leave it difficult to measure forearm twist. maybe they expect to recover that from touch controller orientation information?

How heavy is the battery? or do you have to stay connected to the wall outlet?

The only climate control system I am aware of that can be used in this setting are Peltier effect based systems, and they are dogs in term of energy consumption if you can't put fan or other thermal pump.

Another step towards teledildonics?

i think a "haptic suit" is a good invention for the visually impaired. The suit could give you feedback when you body is near an object of when someone is approaching from behind, etc.

Serious question, it looks like the image under 'washable' is a man's head on a woman's body.

They officially announced Teslasuit at CES 2018 !

https://twitter.com/real_teslasuit/status/950838538416873472

How about a lawsuit?

The "Tesla v Teslasuit" suit

When is the ICO?

He shall know your ways as though born to them

Putting "Tesla" in the name seems like you're trying to use the carmaker's brand to bolster your own brand. Kind of shady.

But an electric carmaker using the name Tesla seems disingenuous in the first place.

What if I used "Turing" as the name of my cybersecurity/AI company?

What is your concern with the carmaker's name? Branded as an 'all electric' carmaker, so a name that evokes electricity seems fairly appropriate. Does feel a bit odd to be using a dead mans name for your company though.

Even still, two wrongs don't make a right.

I guess it is a matter of taste.

In any case, it should be impossible to trademark a name like "Tesla", because it is a common term in electrical engineering and transportation (Tesla wasn't the first company making electric cars).

> so a name that evokes electricity seems fairly appropriate

Only if the car was (somehow) powered via alternating current (bonus points if via wireless energy transfer, for obvious reasons).

I'm actually not sure what the motor tech in the Tesla vehicles are; likely some kind of 3-phase BLDC (or maybe synchronous AC).

So I guess in a way, it is "AC" at some point in the powertrain.

Or "Steve Jobs Hoverbikes" http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s2

Especially since Elon Musk is known for creating companies that have nothing to do with the car -- SpaceX, Neuralink. Amusingly, Elon does not tack on "Tesla" in front of his other companies / products (like Apple and their use of the "i") -- so this is actually a good indicator that Teslasuit is not connected to him.

It might indicate this well in text, but in speech it'll be "the Tesla suit", which I could reasonably believe to be one of Elon's crazy ideas.

It's a simple misconception to correct, though.

But how much of the company's limited energy are they going to waste correcting public perception when they'd be much better served by a better name anyway?

Tesla (the car company) also probably picked this name because the scientist's reputation (as an "under-apreciated genius of electricity") would bolster their electric car brand with their target audience. I don't see an issue.

"The Teslauit haptic library provides a range of sensations"

At least get your brand name right...

I think it's silly to get wrapped up in one minor typo like this, but we're talking about the name of the product here...

It doesn't leave the greatest first impression.

I expect my vaporware to at least get its marketing right! :-)

I had to stop reading after that typo... how does that happen?

So now we can have true sexual assault in VR. I wonder what safeguards will be created by developers to mitigate that. I wonder what legal ramifications there will be for touching someone without consent, if any, and what kind of exposure to liability developers will have.

It appears to avoid putting actuators in sensitive areas.

Ahh I see that now. But no doubt the porn industry is working on their own version.

There should be a phrase that evokes the ability of the porn industry to innovate, eg: "this haptic VR technology is really at the fapping edge"

This can be remedied. I'm picturing a port in the crotchal area that allows for the connection of interchangeable codpieces.

A real issue that should be considered before the technology is actually upon us. I do think that the emphasis shouldn't be on CYA legal concerns, but rather on ensuring that the hardware and software environments being built aren't alienating to roughly half of your userbase (women).

If the VPL DataSuit failed to find success, I doubt that this "suit" will either.

Honestly, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction; wireless HMDs (or integrated processors), on-board outward-looking 6DOF tracking for the head/body positioning, plus similar tracking for the hands (no "datagloves" needed) - and ultimately the arms (ragdoll physics + IK)...

Ultimately, people want to wear less stuff to get into a VR world, not more. If the HMD could be ditched (or be made even less obtrusive than it currently is - which is, IMHO, light-years ahead of where things were back in the 1990s) - people might (big if) flock to it in droves.

Still...there's a lack of a "killer app" for VR. Gaming doesn't seem to be it, yet (a large part of this is the "total buy in" dollar amount needed - it's just too much except for the hard-core players, at best). Social apps don't seem to have gained much traction, either. VR porn seems to be a lost cause as well.

If VR can't make inroads with a "killer function" - it likely will just die on the vine for the second time, unfortunately.

VR is dead. I can't believe this company is going to burn through so much money with this. This will literally never launch.

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