Canadians Are Mad as Hell at Tim Hortons | Hacker News Reader

Canadians Are Mad as Hell at Tim Hortons

vice.com

12 pointsrmason15 comments

LOL. Minimum wage laws always have unintended consequences that create more problems than benefits. The anger is driven because advocates are attempting to deny this is true. And this is just a minor consequence, stripping completely optional benefits to keep costs down is a pretty normal reaction.

Look at it this way, assume Tim Hortons thought they needed to pay $14 per hour to attract the type of help they needed. Previously if the minimum wage was $12, they could either pay $14 per hour, or add $2 an hour in benefits. If they were paying $12 + $2 in benefits, and the minimum wage goes to $14, they aren't going to raise their labor costs to $16 per hour, they don't need to in order to attract the types of employees they need.

Minimum wage benefits are also focused on those who need them the least. It causes companies to reduce hiring and jobs, and to invest more in automation. Those who lose jobs because of it are much more likely to be of color, in poverty, and single parents. Those who keep their jobs are much more likely to be middle class, more highly educated, or students still being supported by their parents.

Instead of a minimum wage, we should have government programs provide benefits to the working poor and single parents earning less than living wages. Without giving a dime to yuppie kids and yuppie spouses. That would make the job market far more robust and open, easier for everyone to find work, while doing far more to help the people we should be trying to help, all at a much lower overall cost.

stick it in your ear. This is the rich owners of a particular Tim Hortons franchise, who are the heirs to the billion dollar Tim Horton fortune, being petty.

Maybe, but these are people who also voluntarily gave benefits in excess of minimum wage before it was raised.

Clearly the change increases their costs and lowers their profitablity. Whether they are billionaires doesn’t matter, it’s a business, not a charity. It’s easy to tell others they don’t need to make as much money, how would you feel if told the same?

Part of the challenge is that business owners/ conservatives/ libertarians like to frame such mandated increases as "putting unfair pressure on small businesses" and "increasing costs to make things untenable"...

When the reality is that this, and every other minimum wage increase in history is woefully out of date (they've been enjoying the benefits of it for years), woefully inadequate, or both.

If your business can't cope with an expected increase (TO parity, or in the direction thereof, lets not forget), that is entirely predictable, often years in advance, the flip side of the libertarian coin is that neither the government or its people owe you a business model or subsidies thereto (direct or indirect).

And when the anger is at businesses who report increasing nine and ten digit _profits_ and claim poverty when called on discontinuing benefits, I don't think that anger is unfounded.

> Instead of a minimum wage, we should have government programs provide benefits to the working poor and single parents earning less than living wages. Without giving a dime to yuppie kids and yuppie spouses. That would make the job market far more robust and open, easier for everyone to find work, while doing far more to help the people we should be trying to help, all at a much lower overall cost.

I agree, and recognizing that this is in Canada, not the US... "Good luck with that". Propose a universal income or an increase in government benefits to the poor and disenfranchised and watch many political heads explode.

The issue is that businesses like TIm Hortons do not have $14/hour to pay their employee. They do not have 5$/hour. They have ">0$/hour is too much". In a modern world where young people cannot get good jobs, there is no "job market" anymore for these industries. Whatever the shitty conditions they offer, someone will take it.

That's where the minimum wage comes into account...

Why the fuck should my tax dollars go to fund your greed?

If your business can't succeed while paying people a living wage then you're business doesn't deserve to survive.

How much per hour should a business pay a 19 year old single person working who lives for free in their parents upper middle home?

How much should the business pay the single mom working full time in the same job to support two children?

Which one does the business layoff when your minimum wage makes them cut expenses?

You don't believe in equal pay for equal work?

You believe in ageism?

Nope, but i recognize that minimum wage leads to job cuts that can be discriminatory. And that employers tend to retain their most attractive workers (younger, better educated, upper class) and cut their least attractive (uneducated, older).

The perception is the kid living with his parents can work any hours or schedule, and might get a college degree, and manage the store someday. And that middle aged single mom who has to leave early constantly for childcare ain’t likely to ever get more valuable.

Tim Hortons is a shitpile. I worked in one once...for a week....just after highschool, I left when A&W called me back to offer me a job. As crappy as A&W was, Timmy's was so much fucking worse. The pay was crappier, the work was harder, they didn't supply me with a uniform, they made me use one from the dirty uniform bin, my breaks were not paid as it was, I got no benefits and there was zero hint of any future benefits. The schedule was ridiculous and illegal, they had people working opening shifts right after graveyard shifts, they gave even the people who'd been there for years less than 32 hours effectively making them part time employees. The owner of that particular location also owned a Wendy's, he would make his employees work at both of them without a proper working agreement. Right around the time I worked there was also when Claus, the owner, began bringing philipino workers in on visas, keeping them in homes he owned and deducting rent and expenses directly from their pay cheques. Which is fairly illegal. The last time I was in either of his establishments all his workers had been replaced by them.

I really try not to support Tim Hortons. Also their coffee sucks and their food is frozen garbage.

Yeah, but we were mad when it sold to the Americans, like many other Canadian companies like Eatons (sold to Sears) and Stelco was sold to US Steel. CN Rail is majority (over 50%) US-owned.

This is an interesting article on the "pennies matter" franchise of Dunkin Donuts, which falls into a similar target market: https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2014/09/17/the-secret-w...

For those not in the know Tim Horton's (named after its founder a famed hockey star) is a Canadian donut chain. They're also very popular along the Canadian border. Here in Michigan they're everywhere. Recently they've expanded into sandwiches and are trying to be seen as more of a restaurant.

"Tim Hortons Inc. (known internationally as Tim Hortons Cafe and Bake Shop, colloquially known as Timmies or Tim's) is a Canadian-based multinational fast food restaurant known for its coffee and donuts." -- Wikipedia

Most ppl go Tim Hortons for coffee, not donut.

Uh, Timbits? They're a kid favorite.

Plus Tim Hortons is Burger King and Popeye's parent company as they acquired er merged them both in the last couple of years.

Not good in all sense in terms of their PR.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com