> if the ID was equally easy to get for all voters
Who in this country is unable to get an ID? More specifically, who in NC is unable to get an ID?
Who in this country is unable to get an ID? More specifically, who in NC is unable to get an ID?
It's rather convenient that the Democrats are always against any measure that would make elections less easy to rig, and provide no active solutions to improve the situation.
There are many reasons why people can’t or won’t get state IDs, even if you can’t fathom it. Until we have mandatory federal IDs (which, incidentally, Republicans are usually against because...facism or something), making them required for a civic duty is just dumb and unfair.
But...uhm, what if you don't have your birth certificate lying around somewhere? What if its like California, you have to pay $50 and wait in line for a few hours? Or what if you try to get a state ID and they want a utility bill to pay your residence?
There are billions of little things.
You can do a lot without an ID card. You can even fly with evidence of identity that doesn't require an ID. You can actually bank as long as you know your SS# and can provide another form of identity (e.g. birth certificate). You might not be able to get a credit card, but those are rich people problems.
Anyways, there is an entire world that you and I are not very familiar with.
Is there any evidence that this is happening, in a way that voter ID would prevent?
"It's not hard to get" is the other fallacy, which is subject to huge selection bias "because I found it easy and so did all the people that I know". Many comments here exhibit that, and I can't tell if they're made in good faith or not.
It's not as simple as taking a 15 minute drive to the DMV and waiting in line. Many of these people lack access to proper transit systems to get to these places. At least where I live, the DMV is open during normal business hours which may be impossible to get to without taking time off of work. Many of these people are paid hourly which makes this a financial decision as well. It's really hard to miss an hour of work when that could be food or rent.
It's really hard to come up with a solution when large swaths of the country or totally opposed to anything that slightly resembles a national ID. While I agree that we could probably be doing something, it's not as simple as telling everyone to go to the DMV.
I mean, there is, I was young, living on my own, getting around by bus poor, and then there is poor poor.
I watched my parents struggle growing up. My dad worked in a steel mill. My mom cut hair and cleaned businesses after work. I never saw them not busy. They made a ton of sacrifices to keep a roof over my head and food on the table.
Getting an ID would not have been a simple task for them. We lived in public housing and we walked almost everywhere. I watched them struggle to get by every day and to hear someone say "just do something" really makes me upset. It's not that simple. Their life was planned down to the minute. Work, walking me home, second job, making dinner, managing finances down to the penny, etc.
All that I am saying is, it's not that simple. People are in some really shitty situations despite doing everything right. Making it harder for these people to vote (who already have trouble finding the time to get to the polls) is just fundamentally wrong in my opinion.
I've thankfully never been in that situation, and I think you've done a great job explaining the issues with the a voter ID system to someone like myself who wouldn't see any issue with it.
If people are actually concerned that requiring a state ID to vote will disenfranchise the poor, then compromise and make IDs free or discounted based upon income.
But that's the thing. What if the people pushing to require a state ID want to disenfranchise the poor?
I refer you to this comment, which you should have seen by now. Court case, concrete evidence. No frivolous arguments please.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16116107
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16115954
> Why is voting, which is an important civil duty, the one thing that should not require proof of identity?
Are you saying that it might be abused? But is it actually abused, in reality? Your "what if" isn't good enough without concrete evidence. Enough double-think.
There are a lot of comments in this post so I did not see that. In this case, it does appear that the NC legislature did intentionally act maliciously to affect who could vote. That being said, I still stand by my position that an ID should be required to vote, and that it should be easy acquire an ID.
> Are you saying that ... it might be abused? But is it actually, in reality? Your "what if" isn't good enough without concrete evidence.
I'm saying that not requiring an ID makes it easier for voting to be abused. I doubt it's abused much because it would be too fragile and require too much orchestration, but I don't think it's nonexistent. I think it's one of many safeguards to help ensure that elections are legitimate.
> Enough double-think.
I fail to see how I'm being logically inconsistent. I simply asked for evidence which you did provide. Most of the time people mention vague events without any citations.
Requiring voter Id, while making it not trivial to get voter id, has pros and cons. The pros are theoretical, as you say "I doubt it's abused much", and the cons are actual. That alone should indicate that it's a bad idea.
The position that "an ID should be required to vote, and that it should be easy acquire an ID" is logical and defensible, except when that's made out to be the actual situation. The problem that it solves is theoretical, the abuses of it are manifest.