Human-shaped pylons carry electricity across Iceland | Hacker News Reader

Human-shaped pylons carry electricity across Iceland

wired.co.uk

155 pointsbensummers70 comments

Important bit:

>An architecture and design firm called Choi+Shine has submitted a design for the Icelandic High-Voltage Electrical Pylon International Design Competition which proposes giant human-shaped pylons carrying electricity cables across the country's landscape.

Meaning the title should be closer to "Human-shaped pylons could carry electricity across Iceland". Though given all the press lately, and how much I like the idea, I really hope they do build them. It's something unique that'll last for a long time; there should be more of that in the world.

Isn't Iceland broke?

Having liabilities doesn't mean that there isn't going to be any kind of investment in the country. And thanks to Iceland's unique geothermal situation, especially with hydroelectricity the power industry is thriving there ... (attracting i.e. energy intensive aluminium plants)

Iceland is a net energy producer. That means they will never be broke. They just happen to owe certain countries a few billion bucks which they may or may not pay back.

Why can you never be broke if you produce energy?

1) You have a free source of money, so you can pay off all your debts with time

2) You will probably always have someone by the balls

Eh??? By that account everyone should be able to pay off all their debts.

It's not enough to have a "renewable" source of income (such as tourism, moderate farming/fishing, solar energy, etc...). Everyone, including countries, also have bills to pay. And if you have a debt you also have to pay the interest on your debts.

As long as the money they make from this renewable energy source is less than what they need to pay for their bills (e.g to import food) plus the interest in their debt, they are still losing money.

In a fractional reserve banking system there is never enough money to pay all the debts. And with a debt based currency, the money is the debt. It's impossible to pay back all the debt.

What do monetary fictions have to do with real things?

Prediction: Icelandic children will have recurring nightmares about robot invasions.

I do like the idea of artistic designs of mundane structures. In Portland they decided to combat graffiti and vandalism on bus stops by sandblasting motifs into the glass: http://trimet.org/publicart/busshelters.htm

These strike me as delicate and not threatening. They are like Brokkr's ice figurines.

I like the idea, but as a cost-savings measure, wouldn't it have been cheaper to just sandblast the glass and forego the artistic motifs?

> graffiti and vandalism on bus stops by sandblasting motifs into the glass: http://trimet.org/publicart/busshelters.htm

That addresses the consequences of a problem and not the root causes. It is important to stop the cause of petty vandalism.

I can take a bet that if most countries had corporal punishment and applied it readily and liberally to vandalism cases, both vandalism and other offenses would be stopped.

In the west people continue to do crimes (and let off) until they do a major crime (when it is too late to change entrenched behaviour).

Corporal punishment addresses the consequences of problems instead of the causes as well.

I can take a bet that if most countries had corporal punishment and applied it readily and liberally to vandalism cases, both vandalism and other offenses would be stopped. [citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Singapore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore

The thing about references is that they should demonstrate or negate the connection or affirmation that was presented.

I fail to see that in these links. I think a more appropriate set of citations would be:

basic research

http://www.religioustolerance.org/spanking_menu.htm

against corporal punishment as an educative method

http://www.apa.org/about/governance/council/policy/corporal- punishment.aspx

http://www.nospank.net/vcb.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin4.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin29.htm

for corporal punishment as an educative method

http://www.corpun.com/ukju9803.htm

http://www.corpun.com/10archive/ukd01001.htm#21929

I personally find a lack of serious psychological research that finds correlation between corporal punishment and increase of quality of life in the society where it is practiced. That observation makes me believe that this practice should be abolished, or severely restricted at least.

Firstly, a lot of studies (esp. in the USA) shows that corporal punishment have negative outcomes. This is because they do not control for other variables (such as socio-economic circumstances). Poorer parents often hit their kids more (and many studies do make a distinction between parental abuse and responsible punishment).

This is the same as the “powerlines causes cancer” research (people living near powerlines tend to be poorer and more prone to cancer). And powerlines is not even an ideological viewpoint!

The problem is that I can give you a slew of papers saying that “corporal punishment has no detrimental effects” and you can give me another slew saying it has detrimental effects. Such internet discussions will not go anywhere (the same as with the death penalty or gun rights). Perhaps I was wrong to bring this up in YCNews (since this is not the forum for such debates).

In any case, in the country of Singapore they have less crime and fewer problems that 99% of Western countries. Yet they have very strict laws (including corporal and capital punishment for drug offences).

EDIT: The original point I wanted to make was this:

In the USA, tough punishment only comes after the criminal has firmly established his bad behaviour. Any pet owner knows that at that stage it is the most difficult to change set behaviour.

You have silly things such as three strikes laws. Why? The third time that behaviour is fixed.

If that same person were punished severely for his first crime (however minor) he would think twice about breaking the law.

That is how it works in Singapore - the first crime is punished hard, and the behaviour doesn't re-occur.

> capital punishment for drug offences ...

> the first crime is punished hard, and the behaviour doesn't re-occur.

Of course it "doesn't re-occur" -- the person is already dead the second time around ;-)

How many lives do you think one drug dealer ruin before they are caught?

How many lives would he ruin if drugs were not illegal?

Making drugs legal (contrary to popular internet belief) does not make them less addictive or less harmful.

It absolutely makes them less harmful because the government will no longer harm you.

Well I guess we'll never know ...

Coming up with a single example of correlation without demonstrating causation is an insult to readers, IMO.

In Singapore you also have a very high chance of getting caught. The change of getting caught is a much better prediction for crime than the severity of punishment.

I love this idea. Most of the time I prefer function over form, but this is just awesome. Choi+Shine added: "Like the statues of Easter Island, it is envisioned that these one hundred and fifty foot tall, modern caryatids will take on a quiet authority, belonging to their landscape yet serving the people, silently transporting electricity across all terrain, day and night, sunshine or snow."

It is an absolutely wonderful idea. I think it's definitely desirable to add form if function is not sacrificed. It looks like whoever designed these figured it out.

The choice doesn't have to be form over function, or the reverse.

I think we can agree both tasks are handled nicely.

Also amusing, a story on electricity delivery, in "Wired".

I agree, don't dismiss design lightly.

I learned from industrial designers at Black & Decker that form can enhance and suggest function.

Just changing the shape of a cordless vacuum cleaner changed peoples impression from "This is a shitty, low-powered vacuum cleaner" to "This is a terrific powered dustpan"

http://www.blackanddecker.com/dustbuster/dustbuster_innovati...

Just changing the outside shape - with no change in product specs. - made the DustBuster into one of the highest selling Black & Decker products ever.

With a design like this -- Iceland, you must construct additional pylons.

How is it you actually have the non-gaming free time to make the reference?

Since they are variable, they should make ones modeled after Tricia Helfer and Grace Park. Cylon Pylons!

I don't play a lot of SC now. Got it out of my system in college.

Yes, but SC2 came out!

Unfortunately, they have insufficient resources after the bankruptcy.

So, they've not enough minerals?

With that volcano, they've certainly got enough vespene.

I do like the idea. They've taken something ordinary and thought beyond the conventional interpretation. Looking at those images, though, I did have the strange anthropomorphic concern that their arms would get tired. Couldn't they hold the cables on their shoulders?

Frost Giants do not get tired, puny mortal! Bring on Ragnarok!

They might melt from all the heat those lines put off though.

That'd be a prank worthy of Loki himself :-D

The title should be "to carry", it's just a design proposal not yet implemented.

I never quite understood our culture's instinctual response to cover up or mask the infrastructure that surrounds us. There's something serene about a wind farm. It's function over form, not function or form. Compare this design proposal to the phone towers that litter the landscape (pathetically) disguised to look like trees.

I must disagree; these designs do not appear to be pathetic disguises in the least. They are instead celebrations of the existing design, enhanced to resemble a powerful symbol in a meaningful way.

Just to clarify, I thought the manner in which phone towers were masked as trees was pathetic (or at least in the manner in which it was implemented), not the pylons proposal. I thought the design team hit a home run on the later. I have yet to see any phone tower made to look like a tree inspiring.

Perhaps they should make cell towers look like a giant with a cellphone to his ear?

It's a neat idea, but I wonder how practical this is from a build/serviceability perspective. They say they are only "minor alterations" from standard designs, but each one of the towers looks unique (I'd guess they have 6 or 8 total "poses"). But I'd also think there is a lot of value when all the towers have the same design in terms of service and maintenance. These must undergo regular inspections to ensure that no load-bearing components have been compromised.

If you follow a long transmission line you will see several pylon designs depending on terrain, river crossings, highways, and the like. Pylon design is a well understood engineering problem with lots of software to over-engineer the designs. And yes they will need a reasonable inspection schedule as do all transmission lines.

All the components, e.g. struts and joints, can be interchangeable, just arranged differently in each one. You would never need to keep complete pylons in stock for each design.

Sorry, I wasn't commenting about the inventory, I was thinking more along the the lines of creating simple maintenance plans for each arrangement. Keep in mind that the average utility field service worker is often kept most efficient by minimizing the number of variations of any given task.

I also wonder if they will be painted white, as in the illustrations. Most pylons I've seen are unpainted, presumably to minimize maintenance costs.

Well said. The maintenance costs will be large enough over the lifetime of the pylons so that different/complex designs will be a net loss.

Will it include a YMCA combo?

I immediately thought of this pole near Disney World:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/32142193

I agree, we do need to construct more pylons... like this.

Need to construct more cylons... like this:

http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/maxim-bat...

It reminds one of that odd chapter on pylons from de Botton in "The Pleasures and Sorrows of Work" where he mentions the "coquettish sexuality" of Finnish pylons.

http://books.google.com/books?id=SslgkiNvZ9wC&lpg=PA199&...

Here's a competing design from a different firm: http://www.dezeen.com/2009/03/30/high-voltage-transmisison-l...

At least, I assume it's for the same competition, as it's over a year old.

What is awesome to me is how, presumably surviving the millenia, these will look to generations hundreds or thousands of years later. Will this be our own "Stonehenge?" How long will people someday puzzle over the purpose of these things?

Pretty awesome stuff.

I doubt these pylons will last longer than society's memory ...

'When' the bombs fall they likely wont be targeted at remote areas of Iceland, some could pretty easily survive. After that they could probably survive at least long enough for some kids to gossip - "I heard those things blew it all up!"

If they do this, I would go back to Iceland to see this. So from the tourist point of view... success!

Very cool, but can Iceland afford it? Last time I checked their currency nearly collapsed.

Good lord don't do it again then! More seriously, yes Iceland does still have enough money and borrowing capability to keep the infrastructure going. They're not all on the streets.

This is a really bad idea. All it takes is one ice storm and those things will fall: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_ice_storm_of_199...

There's a picture right at the top of the page of a crappy wooden one still standing...

About one year ago the country of Sweden began digging down the country's entire electrical infrastructure underground, completely ridding the country of the archaic terrestrial power pylon model. The country was done with digging down all urban cabling more than 40 years ago, and free-hanging power cabling has since only been seen outside urban areas across rural stretches, connecting smaller communities to the grid. What called for the decision was the problem of power outtages caused by storms wreaking havoc on the pylons and the wires, causing civil dismay in the affected areas, as well as the tremendous civilian and commercial costs that follow up. However cool that humanoid design is, I think Iceland should've gone with Sweden's model instead of reinventing the pylon :)

In Montreal there are a lot of buried cables. I worked in a research facility for the only power company around and they pointed out several problems for this method. It costs a fortune so its not really applicable for very long distances. Also, whenever there is a failure you have to reel a few kilometers of cables, fix them and rewire everything in a tube full of mud, water and who knows what. During autumn the water in the tube freezes and expands causing stress and fissures.

It was discussed extensively since we had a massive power outage in 1998 caused by icing rain that affected about 3 millions for 3 weeks.

So burying cables might work well in a city for a while but I really don't think its any silver bullet.

It has worked great inside their cities for almost 50 years - as my post clearly stated, the urban electrical infrastructure of Sweden has been entirely underground since the 60s. The ongoing change is replacing the pylons spanning the country with underground cabling. I'm pretty confident they know what they're doing. Not all underground solutions have to be the same, but by nature, the pylon model is always vulnerable, and it always suffers the same risks.

I hope they go ahead and build these, they look awesome.

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