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Comment by whalesalad | Hacker News Reader

The real tragedy here is that folks are living such sedentary lives that a simple activity like clearing snow from your sidewalk/driveway becomes lethal.

I was once a typical neckbeard programmer who drank way too much coke and red bull and lived off of unhealthy foods. I have a 180º different lifestyle now and will never go back. I enjoy shoveling my driveway.

Everyone should invest in their own physical fitness. Make time for it. Make it your lifestyle so it's not a chore or a second-thought, but a regular part of your routine. At the very least, do it for your mental health.

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I'm an above average runner (fast enough to qualify for Boston anyway), mid-40s, been running about 15 years. I've run dozens of marathons and a few ultras, some over 24 hours and/or 100 miles. I also did CrossFit for about 15 months a couple years back. So I'm in pretty good shape and I have a pretty good idea of physical exertion levels, both aerobic and anaerobic. With all that said, I've had to shovel snow a few times, most recently last week – it is (or at least can be) as strenuous an activity as I've ever done.

Shoveling snow should not kill you, but it's a mistake to underestimate the level of effort it requires.

Then again, I was raised in Florida so maybe I just suck at it.

It can be done at a reasonable pace. If you try to distance throw large amounts of wet, heavy snow, you're going to have a bad time. If you make good use of appropriate shovels, minimize wasted effort, and take your time, it's really not that bad.

> and take your time

That's the catch. In some cities, you have to shovel snow in front of your house by a certain time or get a ticket. If you have responsibilities (kids or whatever), have to get to work, and have to shovel before heading out or take a fine, you don't exactly have time to do it slowly. Health be damned.

So I live in a condo and hire people to do it ;)

It's an issue, why no just buy a machine to do it for you? You can get a low end snowblower for ~200$ which are probably not worthless.

Let me assure you, a $200 snow blower is worthless. When I lived in Minnesota, my motto was: "Life is too short for a crappy snowblower." If it didn't start on the second pull, SOLD. And it had better be two-stage and have some signifcant power.

When I moved to California I sold my snowblower to my then middle-school-aged nephew. He made a ton of money going up and down the street of his town clearing snow for sweet old grandmothers.

>>Let me assure you, a $200 snow blower is worthless

>>When I lived in Minnesota

You definitely don't want a $200 snowblower if you live in Minnesota.

But, if you live in somewhere like Ohio or Michigan in an area that doesn't get a ton of snow, a $200 snowblower can do the trick just fine. But that once or twice-a-year storm that dumps 10 inches might be too much.

What? On a average year Michigan gets way more snow than Minnesota. In the UP alone many areas average over a 150 to 200 inches. No where in Minnesota does it break 80 inches in average.

Nobody lives in the UP. The southeastern part of the state where everyone lives is lucky to see over 40 inches a year

Wow, that sounds terrible, akin to the brown lawn tickets cities like Grand Rapids, MI give out. Why would people re-elect politicians that put horrid ordinances like these in place?

The ordinance isn't ticky-tack, it allows people to use the sidewalk.

A lot of towns have similar and don't enforce it very much.

And snow plows that my tax dollars pay for are what keep the roads clear for vehicles. Why isn't it the same way for the sidewalk? Why do I have to take care of public property?

Because few people would want to pay the taxes needed to have public workers do it, is my guess. Plowing streets can be done fairly quickly with trucks; sidewalks would probably require more workers.

They make small trucks to plow the sidewalks. It's what cities that do it use. It's quite efficient.

Yep, they are super nice machines too, they do the job super duper fast and really well. My city uses them but only to plow "city streets," or rather "streets not in front of anyone's property and streets in front of city property"

I really really wish they'd do my property. I pay a ton in property tax, you'd think they could afford it.

Either way, it would be more expensive.

I'm not sure if the operators are hourly or salaried but it would probably cost more in manpower to do all the streets, they would probably need more machines too plus there would be an increase in maintenance costs and a reduction in lifetime of the machines.

I still can't see it as being efficient like streets. sidewalks are disjointed, have trees in them, curbs, and any number of other obstacles.

Dunno what to tell you. It works in practice in a lot of cities, including large metro areas that get a shitload of snow.

> Why isn't it the same way for the sidewalk?

Your tax dollars pay to keep the roads clear for the sake of emergency vehicles. It wouldn't be done otherwise.

Trying to plow it from the sidewalk would result in more problems than it solves.

> Why do I have to take care of public property?

Scalability. It's manual work and the city doesn't have an army of shovelers on-hand.

The plough sidewalks in Quebec, it can be done.

West Quebec here. They do indeed take care of sidewalks here. They do on the other side of the river, in Ottawa, Ontario, too.

It's a very common requirement in cities that property owners have to keep their sidewalks clear; the rules are often less well-enforced or not there in more suburban environments. These rules are not by any means new--laws on clearing out the street gutter on your property date at least as far back as Medieval times.

The thing with local politics is that engagement is low and extremely self-selected. I'm never surprised when local voters and politicians are disproportionately on the busybody end of the spectrum rather than "live and let live".

It's also extremely populist. Since the effect of local politics are...well, localized, people don't notice nearly as much when the mayor screws up in small towns. They just have to wave the "lower rent!" "more construction!" "inclusive!" "think of the children!" flag a bit and people will vote for them no matter what they actually do. Kind of like the federal politics but without the news outlets and Twitter freaking out.

In this particular case, generally renters don't even have to shovel (the landlord does it or hire someone to do it), so most people don't even seem to know its a requirement unless it says in their lease that they have to handle the shoveling. The owner (who does have to handle it) may not be allowed to vote if they don't live near by.

In my experience, it's usually 24-48 hours after the snowfall ends so there's plenty of time to get it done. Also in my experience, it is very rarely enforced. In many places, the sidewalk is the only safe place to walk the street so it's a real drag when someone doesn't clear their sidewalk. You either trudge through the snow or risk life and limb walking in the street. If you own property, you're responsible for keeping the sidewalk clear and it's your duty to the community to do it.

In this city its -6 hours- after the snowfall ends, and people almost wait on the clock to call 311 and get you fined if you don't do it. If you commute away to work, there are possibilities that the timing could be very awkward (unless you like shoveling while its snowing).

Much rather the city use my taxes to do it with proper equipment, like my hometown did... Oh well. Condo ftw.

Snow shoveling is more of the weightlifting kind of exertion (think squats) than the running kind. Your body is trained for the running kind, something very different.

That's because shoveling requires arm and back strength which running doesn't provide.

I just got in from shoveling a lot of snow and I sure as hell won't be doing a marathon, ever. Shovelling snow is far, far easier.

May I ask what age you changed your ways? I'm 38 and it feels like constant failure. I also worry the damage is done :(

I did at 36, Went from 250lbs to 185lbs in 7 months.

I have a spinal condition so no heavy weights (nothing over 35kg) so lots of reps, pull-ups, calisthetics and eating a 1500 calorie a day diet (which sucked but I adapted remarkably quickly), I've kept the weight off for 18mths and I'm still 185.

It's a lot easier to maintain fitness than lose it and get it back.

Going from a 44" stretch back to a 32-34" (depending on brand) waist in jeans was a nice feeling but the main improvement was energy levels, once I binned the sugary energy drinks and got use to drinking a few cups of coffee sweetened with a tea spoon of honey my energy levels through the day leveled out and I started sleeping better as well (which given the spine stuff was a major win).

I'll stay in shape for as long as I possibly can do.

> I did at 36, Went from 250lbs to 185lbs in 7 months.

This is crazy fast, hope it doesn't bounce back during the next 3-5 years. 18 months in, you're well on your way, keep it up with the consistency!

I count the calories of every meal I eat and every drink as well ruthlessly so unless something goes wrong with physics I'd be hard pressed to put on weight, I actually have the opposite problem, I have to slightly over eat to keep weight on.

Being ~38 combined with my wife eating better is what changed my ways... one day I decided I was tired of getting fatter while my wife get healthier.

I swore off pop/sugar/processed foods and lost 50+ pounds in a year (kept it off for a year too). Still more to go, but man what a difference.

If you feel like a failure and that the damage is done: I'd say you are damn near rock bottom. If you're at that point... there is truly no way to go but up.

You have many many years left on this earth. Do you want to spend them feeling this way about yourself, or do you want to give yourself a second chance and see how good you can be?

Put together a mental image in your mind of where you want to be and start taking the baby steps to get there. BABY steps. First, you need to start eating right. I say this for two reasons: 1, No amount of exercise is going to outrun a bad diet. 2, once you start to see positive changes in your body it will be like a snowball effect. You'll feel better about yourself, your confidence will rise, it will be easier to stick to it.

For me, I am a huge proponent of the ketogenic lifestyle. tl;dr - high fat, low carb. You might want to try the whole30 challenge to get things started.

Then you begin introducing exercise, again, with baby steps. Don't start crazy. If you're completely sedentary and never move: start walking. Get a dog and walk that sucker EVERY day!

After a few weeks and months of eating clean and moving every day, you will naturally start wanting more. You'll be able to explore gym routines with confidence and excitement. You might like weightlifting, or martial arts, boxing, rock climbing, crossfit, all of the above.

Once the snowball is moving, it's hard to stop. That is when you reach an inflection point in your life and it isn't a diet anymore: it's a lifestyle. You WANT to go outside. You WANT to go paddleboarding and hiking on vacation.

Baby steps. Do it right now, you can only get better!

Start with basic yoga and find the stuff that needs work!

I also agree with this, yoga changed my life in a certain way.

It is never too late. Start small, go for a walk at lunch time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42565137

If you're overweight, I'd recommend learning to fast. Lookup up the research in Russia and now some cancer research from UCSD to ensure you comfortable with the process and idea.

Once you get the monkey off your back, the one that is always urging you to eat (for a variety of reasons - stress, food ads, etc...), it's easier to say no to food. When you've committed to not eating, you don't get to rationalize or fool yourself about some "snack" you're having. After 3 days, the physical hunger goes away, though the psychological desires have not completely faded.

You'll learn about how much time you devote to food satiation. Some of that mental clutter will fade away as you fast. I've gone for 3 days, but am looking to do 5 in the future. Our bodies are amazing and designed to survive these calorie droughts - our ancestors evolved this adaptive ability to sustain our life through hardship. Observe this hardship, rather than reacting to it. Keep observing and see what you find about the nature of your body and this life. You are now halfway through, might be time ask some tough questions.

I'm on to 37 and started skateboarding 10 months ago. Took back my way to block climbing which I didn't practice for 15 years. Also started calisthenics. This is after a sizable weight gain and huge drop in fitness down to rock bottom.

I was quite athletic when I was 18-22, but stopped doing sports with any regularity around 23-25 and gradually degraded physically. Some day around 32 I woke up and felt so bad in my own body I decided to put an end to this over the next 7-10 years (since it was the time I took to dig myself into that hole I figured out it would take about the same time to reliably dig myself out of it), changed my diet (this is key!), and started running, which I hate, but basically the only thing I could manage to do. Went like 500m at a ridiculously slow pace (something like 10min/km) and started puking right on the sidewalk. This is when I really realized Things Were Definitively Not OK, and that all the parties and fun and eating and drinking we're not worth that.

End result seven years later, lost the 20kg I had in excess, ran 18km in 1h30, stopped running regularly but (now that I'm more solid) swapped for sports I enjoy much more, and I feel so good it's like I could tear walls apart with my bare hands! In many ways I'm in as good or better a shape than I ever was even in my 20s. Random sample of newly met strangers give me between 8-15 years less than my age, and "less than 30, for sure".

It's never too late. Pace yourself, one step at a time. Set realistic short term goals, yet look up to the stars because on the long run basically anything is achievable. Your mind will resist change, but it can be overcome. The only obstacle between current you and future you is yourself. Choose what you will become, at every moment, consistently.

Fuck if I Ollied down 3 stairs a month ago and I'm now super close to land a tre flip barely a year in, and if that guy[0] can still be at the top of his shape[1] at 51 after having his hip joint basically fuse and fix it through dedicated stretching and exercise (and end up giving a talk where he draws parallels between FOSS and skateboarding), then it tells something about consistency and dedication.

[0]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3GVO-MfIl1Q

[1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-3tDvMG87Ro

There might be things that can't be undone at this point (maybe, I dunno, I'm no doctor), but I don't think it's ever too late. Here's a story I don't feel like retyping: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11941206. Summary: guy I sorta know weighs 400 lbs., doc says it's going to kill him, goes out and gets rid of almost 200 lbs., starts running 5Ks. I don't know his exact age, but he has to be pushing middle age. Neighbor that used to live next to me was a pretty chunky gal in her mid-late 30s, started running, worked up to half marathons. Pounds fell off, she said she felt immensely better. I have other examples I've personally witnessed.

Now I won't say it's easy. I know plenty of "failures", too. It's gotta be hard (if you read the linked story, it's a hardship I've never known). But plenty of others in this thread have good advice on where to start. I'm just here for moral support to tell that I've seen others do it at all ages, and it's never too late. Like in the story I linked, come back in a few years and give me something to cry about. :-)

A simple option is go get a gym membership and right now just do 30 minutes of walking 5 days a week. Then work to an hour.

Count your calories on the app 'my fitness pall' so your not over eating and in 6 months you will be in waaaaaay better shape then you are right now.

Then go on youtube and research intermediate level advice.

I'm 34, in a similar situation. I think going w/ what whalesalad said is worth taking to heart.

There's a lot in life outside of our control but we can control, to some degree, what we put in our bodies. I'm paying much more attention to that now (using MyFitnessPal) and going for a daily walk.

These are baby steps and I'm hoping to work myself back into shape to at least play some pick up soccer games, start new hobbies, and have clothes fit well and look nice again.

Or maybe its a good thing that society has progressed far enough that physical vitality is no longer a necessary trait for the advancement of our species.

No way! Your brain grows and develops when you challenge your body physically. It's established science that strenuous exercise builds new neurons in your brain.

I wonder why you think that we've reached this point of progress? It seems like every day we're learning more about how consumer tech is killing us mentally, physically, and emotionally.

He said society, not our body.

For a large chunk of the population, society does not demand physical fitness. That's not the same thing as our bodily health not requiring physical fitness.

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