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Comment by aidenn0 | Hacker News Reader

When was the last time you used a paper map?

When was the last time you used the yellow pages?

How much money have you spent buying encyclopedias in the last 20 years?

How much time searching for someone who has a mediocre copy-of-a-copy of bootleg tapes of that one amazing concert by the band you liked?

How many hours have you spent on the phone with a company because you lost the user's manual to their product?

How big is your rolodex?

When was the last time you had a conversation to the effect of "what was the name of that actor in that movie" and you were unable to get the answer?

When was the last time you had to spend 15 minutes planning out where and when you would meet when because your group is splitting up when on a trip?

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And yet pretty much everyone still gets up, drives a car alone to work, does their eight, nine hours, drives home alone in that same car, eats, watches a little TV, and goes to bed.

I was born in 1963. Where's the 30 hour work week I was promised? Why am I still driving a gas vehicle by myself to work? Geopolitics? Same shit, different day. Sure, we got an unlimited flow of information, and that has most certainly revolutionized many things. But I argue that the day-to-day lives of most people doesn't look a whole lot different than when I was born, it's just better accessorized.

The numbers suggest that we could live 1950-style lives working only eleven hours per week[0]. Instead, we inflate our consumption and keep working 40 hours, living in houses more than twice as large[1], commuting ever-longer distances[2], paying daily (or more than daily) for others to prepare food we could have prepared ourselves, and just generally choosing to live many times as large. We adapt so quickly that we don't even realize that we've nearly-quadrupled our lifestyles, but that's where the 30-hour work week went.

[0] http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/

[1] http://www.moyak.com/papers/house-sizes.html

[2] https://www.thoughtco.com/americans-commuting-over-100-hours...

Instead, we inflate our consumption and keep working 40 hours

"We"? I'd happily work at software rates for 20 hours/week. And, yeah, I understand the fundamental shift in a lot of things before that's a practical option. I'm not even disagreeing with you, I think you're spot on. But those that have simple, inexpensive lifestyles still don't have the option of working less. So though even I consume more than I used to, I also try to shovel as much as I can into the retirement accounts.

Housing is the main cost, and it scales with average take-home income — which is why two-income-no-kids families aren’t as well off as one might expect from looking at single-income families from the 1960s. If you can somehow disregard housing as a cost, and have health insurance anywhere except the USA, 20 hours per week is fine.

I’d manage on 10 hours per week minimum wage in the UK, but that doesn’t really count because the UK government effectively subsidies everyone earning less than (I think) £24k/year with things like NHS healthcare and a functional police, fire brigade, and army.

Housing is the main cost, and it scales with average take-home income

Shows you what happens when you're well-ensconced in your own personal bubble. It didn't occur to me until you pointed it out that the reason I could easily live on 20 hours/week is partially due to the fact that our $650K house cost us a third of that, because we bought it twelve years ago. Living on 20 hours/week and making the payment on a $650K house might be a little tight. Fine, make it 30 hours/week. :-)

"When was the last time you used a paper map?"

"When was the last time you had to spend 15 minutes planning out where and when you would meet when because your group is splitting up when on a trip?"

I do these things all the time as many of my hobbies are outdoor activities. For example, at Arapahoe Basin, a ski area in Colorado near Denver, cell reception is non-existent. So you need to have a plan for people to meet up when we get on the mountain, where to meet for lunch, where at the end of the day. And even at ski resorts with cell coverage, it is far easier in a group to discuss how you are going to meet after the run because people will invariably get separated. E.g., if I'm at Vail, "Meet on the skier's left side of Northwoods, do not go all the way to the base."

I always bring paper maps when backpacking and hiking. Sometimes when you are going camping, you have to have this all planned ahead of time since once again cell coverage may be non-existent. And someone always knows where I am going and when I should be back in case I need a rescue. I also go caving as a hobby, and all of these things are especially important there.

You don't need cell coverage to look at maps on your phone. The GPS in your phone will work without coverage. Use Gaia GPS and/or Avenza Maps, they're far, far superior to paper maps. GGP is right, we live in the future.

Obviously, it doesn't hurt to bring a paper map, but you'll find that you're not going to use them at all. We live in the future.

> Obviously, it doesn't hurt to bring a paper map, but you'll find that you're not going to use them at all. We live in the future.

I disagree for multi-day or technical trips. I have done expedition style trips where I am camped in the mountains for weeks. I have been using a Garmin 60CSx GPS for years and love it. It has topo maps on it, typically at 1:24k, and they are invaluable. I have tried bringing a phone, but I don't like phones because touch screens are a royal pain with a hand that is gloved or in mittens. Phones also don't take AA batteries like a GPS or headlamp and are battery hogs. So you need to bring along more junk to keep them charged.

For within the US, the National Geographic Trails illustrated maps are awesome. They are rip proof and printed on waterproof paper. And they are large when unfolded, so it's easy to quickly scan and find things unlike trying to scroll around on a small phone screen.

http://www.natgeomaps.com/trail-maps/trails-illustrated-maps...

For lots of hikes and climbs that are more on the technical side, your route information ("beta") is probably going to be written on paper. When you are climbing something that is very steep or in canyon country, GPS is useless. You need visual information on the route you need to take and that may be a photo or sketch. And this is easy to keep folded in your pocket and remove with a gloved hand. On a summer weekend in Colorado on the summit of a more difficult 14er (think Crestone Needle or Capitol), you will see many people with printed guides from 14ers.com. So its just not me. I don't see many people using their phones for navigation (but they do for pictures).

And in a cave, there is no substitute for a paper map. But that's a different ball of wax.

There's some planning when skiing (for reference, I ski at A Basin yearly too; great place), but I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. Usually it's pretty easy to plan, esp. at A Basin to say, "meet at the midway restaurant".

And from a technological standpoint, all the maps that you can have printed are all online as well, so in the same way that Yellow Book entries are now database rows, maps are either primitive PNGs or interactive terrain maps.

Sure and the planning at A Basin depends on the situation. If everyone is leaving from the same car, its easy. But if you have 3-4 car loads of people leaving and arriving at different times, you want to make sure a plan is in place before people have started arriving.

>When was the last time you used a paper map? When was the last time you used the yellow pages?
How much money have you spent buying encyclopedias in the last 20 years?
How much time searching for someone who has a mediocre copy-of-a-copy of bootleg tapes of that one amazing concert by the band you liked?
How many hours have you spent on the phone with a company because you lost the user's manual to their product?
When was the last time you had a conversation to the effect of "what was the name of that actor in that movie" and you were unable to get the answer?

How big is your rolodex?

How many of those were our real problems and main concerns all these decades back? Who even thought those were actually problems worth fixing?

Meanwhile stuff like homelessness, unemployment, stupid media with fake news, clowns for presidents, war-mongering, pollution, daily grind, costly medical bills, and so on, are all here.

No rolodex? Don't need one, tons of people can say, I don't have a job, or just have the shitty, no prospect jobs people (including college kids) can get today that doesn't require one.

The main thing we have, that's actually futuristic, is instant global communication and/or the internet. And it's not like that's doing us many favors lately either. We had totally other dreams for it in the 90s.

Internet connected fridges, yeah, they can keep those.

This list made me realize just how much cognitive dissonance I live with being a bit of a paranoid person who likes to use old school methods for some things. I'll respond in order.

I use a paper map all the time. All gps/location features are disabled on my phone, so if I am headed somewhere I usually scout the route on my pc. Most of the time time I just write down the exits, but sometimes I'll print the map and directions out. I always have a paper atlas in my vehicles though (along with forest service topo maps, a habit from my days living in the mountains). If I am in a bind (eg lost), I use openstreetmaps or gmaps if I have to, not to look at where I am but where I am going. (remember no gps/loc features).

I use the yellow pages for kindling and coupons still quite frequently.

My family used to have a huge collection of encyclopedias, and when I have more bookshelf space I really want to get an updated one if any exist. Right now I have a passed down partial collection of the 1971 Funk & Wagnalls, and a complete 1986 Funk & Wagnalls. Pre-internet much of family time was spent arguing and using encyclopedias to support the argument.

As for bootleg recordings, for me private ftp and warez was the end of physically buying bootlegs in the 90's.

I have spent plenty of time on the phone with a company because their user manual was out of date, does that count?

Ok you got me on the rolodex.

All the time because I have a hard time remembering movie names and actor names for some reason. If you remember the movie it's easy to check imdb, but if you don't you have to spend time trying to remember one actors name and then sift through their filmography.

Also all the time, because I am a stickler for having plans in place in public. For example when I take the family to an amusement park, everyone is briefed by me on objective rally point(s), exits, comms, and time sync, among other things before being "let loose". Some military habits die hard.

“When was the last time you used a paper map?”

We need to define “wildly futuristic”. I think we have “wildly” different definitions.

Do you think the people of the 1960's wouldn't find wildly futuristic this: http://www.mobileshop.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/goo... ? This is almost like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which was sci-fi in 1978.

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