GoPro quits the drone business
theverge.com
theverge.com
Note drone entrepreneurs - if there's money to be made in drones, DJI will take it to itself.
The thing is that you simply can't compete with the vertical integration of DJI. Taking images and videos is still by far and large the reason to fly drones in the first place, and once you own the vertical stack and can integrate your imagers with the electromechanics (gimbal) you get to a very small and efficienct package.
Think about that: for every gram of camera, you need two grams of stabilizer, then you need four grams of drone and battery to carry that. While DJI just stabilize their optics and sensor, GoPro stabilizes an entire 80g, bulky camera. This is mainly why the Karma is so big and heavy compared to the DJI Mavic (there are some advantages to DJI in propulsion and batteries but those are pretty small; not a lot of proprietary tech in those fields).
The ability to say "yes, I know, DJI, the tiny grass strip 1km from my house is an airport, but I'm fully FAA compliant with this flight" requires a multitude of steps, involving both their app and a Web browser and copying and pasting serial numbers from fields that do not permit copying, then the authorization you get only lasts for 72 hours, so you have to do it again. Otherwise you have to pay to be a "big pants" customer, but even then the experience is less-than-ideal, with a lot of pros turning to Russian software that doesn't perform the legal validation checks, etc. You literally cannot obtain this authorization without an Internet connection, because they store your attestations for liability insulation. So if you're in the field, and you forgot to convince DJI that you're legal before you went out, you're driving back to cellular range.
DJI's interaction with regulation, in particular, is a very broad example of protecting themselves from liability by shunting a lot of work to users of the equipment.
They also assume you have an Internet connection by deferring to Google Maps, with no offline ability that I can find. Google Maps does support offline now, but the way they embed it in the controller software, if I'm out of cellular range (which is a lot), my map box is a giant grid that moves around with the drone and nothing else.
I wouldn't remotely consider them for professional work, the way they're going, and I say that having dabbled in cartography, farming applications, and aerial photography. Sure, they can get gear out, which is where you're coming from, but there's a lifecycle of gear ownership that they pretty much entirely ignore.
Which, fair enough - Chinese company. But the fact that such a sentiment could also, from the point of view of the software, be something like "I need to deliver life-saving medicine and the bridge is out" does not factor into their decision-making.
Although on the other hand, it's just a tool. My hobbyist wrench doesn't refuse to work on a bolt that asks it not to. My professional screwdriver doesn't have extra authentication built in.
But, but HN says Chinese companies are inherently incapable of innovation because of culture/socio-politics/other pet peeve./s
DJI beat Lily (not that they were as advanced as they claimed with faked footage) and now GoPro. How is 3DRobotics doing? I haven't heard any news from/about them in a while.
I've looked at quite a few drone startup projects (as investments). I'm not sure everyone fully understands how formidable DJI is right now.
They are the Apple/Amazon AWS of the drone market.
I used to be a loyal 3DR customer and owned both the Iris+ and Solo. Both were very capable and had some outstanding features, but DJI pushed them out of the market pretty quickly. They did so by flooding the market with a broader range of models, and then reduced the price of their mid tier models which killed 3DR sales. The day I read that 3DR had sold their mapping software (Site Scan) to DJI, the writing was on the wall.
I unloaded all my 3DR stuff that weekend and now own a Mavic Pro and a Spark.
Having been following the industry for about 5 years now, I'm not sure there are any viable competitors to DJI. There are some smaller players like Yuneec, but the technology and price points can't compare to DJI. It's the same thing GoPro found out the hard way. Stumble once, and DJI just sweeps up the crumbs and forces you out of the market.
I ended up buying a Mavic Pro. Never even so much as saw a Solo in person. In your experience, how do they compare?
The Phantom 3 was way ahead of the Solo in nearly every spec. Better camera (4K vs. 1080p), longer battery, longer range and better GPS. Many users I know attribute the controller issues with the fact 3DR used some proprietary GPS instead of the more common one the DJI models used.
The nail in the coffin though was the gimbal. The P3 came with a three axis gimbal, even on their entry model. The Solo, because it was rushed, at first didn't even ship with a gimbal and they said they would sell it separately as an add-on. Then it shipped with one that didn't move at all (http://macnn.mnmcdn.com/article_images/128157-md-26378-Solo_...), and when they finally got the three axis one on there, it was already too late. I also found out later a lot of the demo's they did the Solo's they were using had souped up GPS and other software they didn't have on the retail models people were getting.
My Solo had a lot of the common issues. It would take off fine, but only go about 75ft and then hover, then the gps would cut in and out and I'd panic and have to land it. Sent it back a few times and nothing was ever resolved. After my third replacement, I threw in the towel. My Iris+ was far more dependable and I only ever had really minor issues with it. A simple re-calibration always fixed any issues. I had a three axis gimbal on it with a gopro Hero 5 and it was always dependable. I ended up selling it because I could go from hauling around a huge Pelican 1650 case to my backpack with the Mavic.
After having both, I finally came to the conclusion DJI has a far superior product. They're innovating faster, and packing way more tech into their drones than any other company. Add in the fact they're making these things smaller and smaller. It makes it WAY easier to transport. Like I said, I can toss my chrome bag over my shoulder, walk into the city, unpack and get my Spark up in a matter of minutes, get some footage and get out before the cops show up. No way I could do that with either the Solo or the Iris. The startup time for both was several minutes (anywhere from 2-5 mins) to get a GPS lock. With the Spark and Mavic its almost instantaneous.
Hope this helps. My advice is to stick with DJI, even their entry models are better than most mid range drone models from other companies.
But for a pet project I also bought a cheap sub-80 euros clone off of alibaba (found the same on amazon.fr a few euros more expensive), and I have to say the quality of it was good enough for most usage I actually have, and it came with equipment to attach it, take it underwater, ... To the point I realized, if I had neither now for my need that cheap one with a good sd card would be enough.
There is obviously a place for GoPro as a brand but given how the bazillion smartphone camera optics produced every years helped improve the field immensely in price/quality, their attempt to capture the market while having decent margins was doomed. Most people will prefer "good enough, third of the price".
At least that's how I view it.
There's a video review of this camera and other cheap cams on Youtube by a user named redskull.
A year or two ago I got a 1080p one from Hobbyking for about £40 and used it when snorkelling (the waterproof case came for free). It has been great and my only complaint are the buttons on the waterproof case are a bit stiff to press. Video quality is excellent. I dont have a GoPro to compare it against, but from what I've seen on YouTube et al, it certainly seems competitive (sorry I dont have any clips online).
There are many, many, many on amazon - prices vary a lot though so with 10 minutes you can usually filter out the optimistically priced items and find the sensible zone. I'd not expect to pay more than about £50 for a 4K + Wifi one
Textiles and clothing are already starting to be made in India, Bangladesh, and Vietnam because Chinese factories are too expensive for simple manufacturing. Globalism ensures that "harm" will be exported from rich countries to the poor ones. The economic incentives are extremely powerful, and a handful of well-meaning people won't fix that.
What happened in China - and is currently happening - is that their industrial revolution occurred and they are now making increasingly better products with an increasingly more educated and skilled workforce, no different than what happened in the United States. As prices of labor and factories go up, the low-hanging fruit is exported elsewhere.
Check your - or your friend's, since you try not to buy clothing like this - Nike shirts and see where they are made. Anything new is likely not to be made in China.
The cycle continues.
But that's true for expensive cameras too.
For example, the LED light bulb market had such promise but now is flooded with cheaply made bulbs that are made with components that will fail before they should. The pollution cost to mine all the rare earth materials that go into these light bulbs are not reflected in their final cost, and in my opinion, they should be.
The economics of buying from AliExpress/Alibaba can work out slightly differently than buying from a Western company that’s sourcing from China. Cutting out the middleman allows them to sell it at a price that I find cheap while they’re still able to capture far more profit than from a wholesale purchase. Potentially improving conditions vs if you bought the non-knock off.
Not to say that happens in every case. Nor as a broad comment on the conditions of factory work in China. But food for thought on the benefit of buying directly from Chinese companies.
I would have to dig deep into my prior comments to find the source, but it was in response to my comment that GoPros don't seem to be a better user experience than the "cheap Chinese knock-offs" (direct quote). Then someone came along with a link pointing out that a GoPro is the cheap Chinese knock-off. They just silk screen their name on it.
EDIT: Found the original, no link, but should be easy to confirm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12869304 Thanks, DDG!
As for your prediction of shutdowns and seriousness of pollution, well, that remains to be seen. As someone who does import/export of goods in Chinese factories... I have my doubts.
1. Serious UAV for serious aerial photography. DJI still suck there, but the distance from their best offer and the nearest competitor is around $180k USD
2. Serious UAV for remote sensing. DJI simply has no offers there other than a consumer handheld ir camera screwed on to a quad
3. High performance. DJI still can't approach mid-tier amateur aerobatic brands
4. Agricultural use, chemical sprayer. DJI has something for Chinese internal market, but they get steamrolled by domestic competition.
5. High payload. DJI have nothing made specially for this niche
I personally think it's a smart move by GoPro because I don't see any growth potential in the consumer space with flights being banned anywhere interesting.
Cheap GoPro eroded their margins, and ignored the fact that for most people their cell phone is good enough for video. Karma, and their gimbal is great, but products like Rylo saw the future as being motor-less. And after using it, I agree.
If the karma had built a battery-less Fusion, they would have had something that was new, instead of trying to play catch up and gerry-rigging a GoPro to a drone.
I still have hope, but they got take more risks and build their future not someone else's.
And you can buy it today.
I have owned a number of their products, and have (twice) sent in a Hero4 for a free replacement after it stopped working. I use these cameras during long distance trips on my motorcycle, so I don't think the failures of those two cameras were entirely due to a manufacturer's defect. Still, no questions asked, they took care of me and even sent me a free gift after the second time one of my store-bought Hero4's malfunctioned.
I like the product and the connectivity has gotten a lot better with the Hero6.
There are so many things that they could have added to GoPro 5 or 6, and so little they did add, that it's embarrassing. Plus their drone fiasco.
Alternatively, if they made their product more find-able through some sort of tracking/recovery feature, I'd be happy to spend $600 on their camera.
Same type of problem with their drone, not enough features that protect the investment to make it worth the money. For instance, it isn't waterproof. That would at least give me a reason to buy it over a DJI model.
The actual surf mount comes with a leash that you can tie to the camera. You can also attach one of those orange floaty blocks to your camera to make it easier to find.
Neither time did the float help me. Both times were in pretty heavy 2’ overhead surf and my body made contact with the cam while trying to pigdog through a pinching barrel but not making it.
e: if you feel the need to down vote, please let me know why you disagree