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dangrossman

I regret buying a maxed out XPS 13 a year and a half ago.

My list of problems:

* Coil whine

* Noisy fans

* Heat issues

* USB-C port has a bad pin (only works in one orientation with pressure)

* Charging port inconsistently charges

* Bad cell in the battery, so it suddenly shuts off without warning when on battery

The charging issues started just around the 12 month mark, so I quickly sent to a repair center under warranty. They returned it with a note that said "mainboard replaced", but nothing had actually been replaced. Same bad pin on the USB-C port (everything I plug into it only works "upside down", and that port is part of the mainboard), same dust in the ports as when I mailed it, etc. By the time they shipped it back, the warranty had expired.

If you're going to buy one of these, I recommend buying an extended warranty. I do also recommend the touchscreen. I've heard the i5 versions have less problems, I would probably take the performance hit next time if it meant a more reliable and longer-lasting machine.

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Dan, I apologize for your experience. If you ever run into something like this again, besides contacting support directly, you can ping @dellcarespro on twitter and, if its related to the developer edition or project Sputnik you can loop me in @barton808. thanks!

Would you follow up on the issue he had if he provided you with the order details and repair communication? There should be a good chance of there being a paper trail to follow and a mismatch between communication to customer and repair hardware actually used, no?

I can personally speak to the fact that Barton means what he says. When Sputnik first came out in Beta, I bought a developer edition that had some keyboard issues. I dropped a casual note on Twitter and Barton went out of his way to make sure the issue got resolved.

I keep contemplating a full transition to Ubuntu as my work machine, but there are still certain environment impacts (like connected devices and the need to run some Mac-only software on occasion) that has prevented it.

But if I could convince myself to take the dive and go Linux-only, I wouldn't hesitate to run with the XPS line.

Disclaimer: Absolutely none other than Barton is a great guy who helped a random stranger that once complained on Twitter.

Have you ever fixed coil whining?

Whenever, I see it I always assume the product is just trash by design.

Come to think of it, my 5510 (xps 15 basically) has a stupidly bad coil whine. Ergh.

The reports of coil whine are really the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on an XPS 13. Played with one in an MS store, love the hardware, and I'm ready to go back to Linux.

So you're on the team? Here's a perspective from a potential buyer. Apple having truly jumped the shark on their MB Pros, I've been mulling on and off about what to do when it's time to replace my current 13" MBP. An XPS 13 or 15 w/Ubuntu is definitely on my radar. But I am a bit scared off by reliability & quality reports. They're only anecdotal & biased samples of course, but there's not much else for a poor consumer to go on.

It might be worth your team's while addressing these perceptions in some way. I don't know what to suggest (your job not mine!) other than chiming in now and then in places like HN, but it might merit some thought on your part.

One thing that reduces consumer risk when buying Apple is their genuinely frictionless returns policy. It really is feasible to buy if you're unsure & just return within a couple of weeks, no questions asked. I haven't looked, but imagine Dell's terms are similar. If so, this might be worth highlighting.

There are 3 in my family, a 9350 and two 9360s. All work fine. I represent the majority of people who have no reason to write anything about their computers because there's nothing to say.

Accepted (apart from the unsubstantiated claim about representing the majority). To quote myself, these perceptions are only based on "anecdotal & biased samples".

The problem is that a lack of accurate & reliable information can be a great incubator of unsubstantiated perceptions. I'm just suggesting that if the Dell team believe the XPS's not to have reliability problems, it's in their interests to come up with tactics to manage perceptions where possible. It's in our interests really, as we all would want a wide range of good developer-friendly laptops available.

I also own 9360 with 1080p panel for half a year.

The only thing that bothered me was adaptive brightness (CABC) that was fixed in my case with an unofficial panel firmware at some risk to brick the device. Coil whine is perceptable only if I keep ear close to the keyboard. No other problems.

If there is someone from Dell here: please fix CABC! Unofficial patch proves that it can be done. It's especially important for linux devs who switch between dark terminal windows and browser: CABC increases backlight brightness if contents of screen are light, and decreases if it's dark. So, I switch from terminal to browser, brightness jump is already unpleasant as is, but then CABC kicks in, increases brightness and burns out eyes. Switch back to terminal -- too dark, difficult to see anything. How it's even supposed to work... Another unpleasant thing happens when CABC starts to adjust brighness back and forth while I edit code, it's highly annoing when it happens.

Edit: There were also a problems with Atheros WiFi, but new firmware from Atheros's github fixes them completely for me. Works stable since June 2017.

Adaptive brightness is a Windows setting you can change in the Power Options control panel. Click 'Change plan settings' next to your chosen power plan, click 'Change advanced settings', click 'Display', click 'Enable adaptive brightness' and change it to off.

I don't have windows installed, but it's highly unlikely that it'll help. This feature is baked into panel firmware, and while Dell releases firmware updates for some models, there is no official fix for 9360 FHD. For models with the fix there are two versions of firmware: with CABC support and without. Switching requires firmware reflash with a special vendor tool. So it's unlikely that there is a dynamic setting to switch it off.

Oh. The setting works in Windows on my XPS 13, but I have the 3200x1800 display. I disabled adaptive brightness the day I bought it, because it annoyed me for the same reasons.

Tool from Dell to disable CABC on the FHD model was released today. Happy days!

http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/drivers/driversdet...

I bought a Dell XPS 9550 with terrible coil whine from the Microsoft Store about two years ago. Thinking I was just unlucky, I did an exchange (MS Store) to a different unit. This one had no coil whine, but would not wake up from sleep about half the time.

If you think Apple has fallen in terms of quality, you have no idea how low they would have to fall to match Dell's.

> If you think Apple has fallen in terms of quality

I don't. I've found Apple (hardware) to be reliable and long-lasting. It's the developer-hostile designs where I think they've gone crazy.

It just seems like consumers don't care that the MacBook design is hostile to connectivity (my biggest issue) or developers in general. They're used to it from Apple, and want the latest and greatest regardless. Apple is honing in on that market, like it or not.

I don't find Apple designs hostile at all for Objective-C and Swift developers, their main developer customer base.

I disagree with the last part of this sentence. I know a lot of developers, the vast majority of whom have preferred Apple laptops for years, and very few of whom develop in Objective-C and Swift. I agree with a lot of other commenters that Apple are becoming more and more complacent and arrogant about the developer part of their customer base, which I think is larger than perhaps they realise.

Then they should have bought a laptop with a pure GNU/Linux or BSD variant, and help companies that target UNIX developers stay in business.

Pure UNIX server software was never the developers target market of neither NeXT or Apple.

UNIX compatibility was always just a means to port UNIX workstation software into their OSes, not as a means to write UNIX server software.

Just like Microsoft did in the past and is now doing it again.

Their developer target market are the ones using their sancioned languages and SDKs.

I don't see how choice of programming platform & language has much to do with the need for real keyboards, function keys, ports, etc. Nor is it true that most developers using macbooks are only or even primarily 'Objective-C and Swift developers').

It is true, however that those developers I know who have a choice (ie. because they don't have a huge professional investment in Apple's platforms) are seeking alternatives to macbooks for their next replacement machines.

To answer my own query on the returns issue:

> Restocking Fees: Unless the product is defective or the return is a direct result of a Dell error, Dell may charge a restocking fee of up to 15% of the purchase price paid, plus any applicable sales tax.

http://www.dell.com/learn/au/en/aucorp1/policies-returns (Aus version as this is where I am).

That's a real problem for online purchases in my view.

If you are going Dell I think the best bet is to try the Precision 5000 series (pretty equal to XPS 15) and 7000 series (heavier and bulkier but you can really spec these things out). I have an XPS 15 (9550) and I really cannot recommend them. Lots of problems.

At least the Precision line is the buisness line which means better support, preinstalled with Linux (so its tested well) and probably from what I have read better tested/built due to being a business line. I like supporting Dell on this venture b/c they are sticking thier neck out a little by even supporting/preinstalling Linux as a big name OEM provider.

The Lenovos are great too, but I wish they would officially support Linux and offer Linux preinstalled as an option so you don't have to pay for Windows.

Thanks, I won't be actively looking for 6 months or so. I'm just keeping an eye on what's available. Precisions are prohibitively expensive here (Aus) -- starting at about AUD$6000! Thinkpads raise a nostalgic smile. My little x40 with dock was probably my favourite ever machine.

Both the Precision 5510 and the M3800 I used to have, had issues with the battery swelling. The M3800 was a piece of junk - pretty much what I'd expect when a company that makes $300 laptops uses the same design team to make a $3000 laptop. The 5510 felt much better, but the screen has a bit of discoloration at some of the edges, and while the keyboard is great, the trackpad isn't that good. The speakers are hilariously bad.

The 5510 is a lot more rigid than the 3800 was, but it still isn't rigid enough. I could carry my personal 15" macbook pro all day with one hand while still being able to click the trackpad down. With that 5510, the chassis flexes too much for the trackpad to click when you hold it from one side. And don't get me started about the cheesy chargers Dell uses.

The 5510 was worlds better, I'll admit - and it does a decent enough job running Ubuntu! There's enough to like about the laptop, but not necessarily at the price they charge.

My work laptop is an M3800, though the newer one is the 5510. Pretty solid machines in my experience. We did after market upgrades to some very fast SSD (sorry don't remember which).

That said- I'm staying with the m3800 as long as I can. It's a few years old and my battery needs replacing, but otherwise is very capable. Some people have had docking issues on and off with the 5510 (occasional crashing, though I think it's a driver/software issue), but more importantly it has the awful "Nostril Cam" which is annoying for video meetings.

In general, fast, light, good battery (for perspective, mine lasts 2-3 hours now, vs 5-7 when I got it), useful ports. The keyboard is not the best (home/end/pgup/pgdn keys are fn+arrow instead of dedicated) but very usable. I hated the glossy screen at first, but touchscreen is surprisingly useful and I got past it. I just keep a microfiber cloth in my laptop bag now.

yeah "up the nose" cam is one of the more annoying features of these Dells :( Also the non-dedicated pgup/dwn/home/end is another annoyance - I guess I got use to it after a while

I'm not a fan of the 13" form factor to shipping a developer edition XPS 15 (with 32GB) would be awesome FYI!

I would also love to replace my 15" laptop that has 32 GB of RAM (a Eurocom M5 Pro).

Finding a suitable vendor with nice specifications has been hard work...

I just bought the version with least RAM and bought 32GB RipJaws from Amazon. It only took like 10 minutes to exchange it and I'm super happy with it.

Yeah, that's what I did with my M5; I got the 16GB (2x 8) version, and then took another 2x 8GB from my old laptop too.

The thing is, I'm having trouble finding a worthy replacement (this is years old now and is dying; the left hinge is on the way out, the keyboard doesn't work properly (and it's the second keyboard this laptop has had), and the power jack is ... temperamental, but that's another story).

This laptop can hold up to 4 SO-DIMMs (8GB each), 2x 2.5" HDDs, 2x M.2 2242/2280 SSDs, has 4 USB 3.0 ports (one of which is also an eSATAp port), 2 DisplayPorts, an HDMI port, a SIM card slot, SD card reader, gigabit wired Ethernet, 3 audio jacks (headphones/microphone/line-out), a Core i7-4720HQ and a 15.6" 1080p IPS matte display. It also has a GeForce GTX965M but I don't use that (it's always powered off).

I'm in the United Kingdom, and I'm having difficulty finding something that can even come close to that, without going back to Eurocom (which I may end up doing). The most important aspect to me is the large memory support (I can barely get by with 16GB for all the development work I do, so 32GB is really nice) and storage (both HDDs are in a RAID-1 for /home, and both SSDs are in a RAID-1 for / -- which was handy, because one of the SSDs failed a few months ago, and I didn't have to do anything). Avoiding the Microsoft Tax would also be a bonus.

To compare to the laptop this thread is about: I only see an option for 1 drive instead of 4 and it doesn't even go to 1TB, there's no wired Ethernet and no HDMI/DisplayPort connectivity.

The only reason I'm hesitant to go with Eurocom again is their long lead time & shipping charges (they're in North America), and their laptop keyboards don't seem to last...

Maybe look into a Clevo machine. For example, the Clevo P775 has 2xM2 2x2.5" slots, similar connectors (missing sim card) and supports up to 64GB of RAM (4 slots). There are other options as well.

I'll say that I wanted to like Dell because they seemed to be focused on delivering quality Linux laptops. However, I will never buy a Dell again. The support is absolutely abysmal. I had a 5510 that I ended up selling for a significant loss about 6 months after buying it because Dell kept "fixing" what I had, sending me back the wrong machine, etc. Total waste of time and money. Buyer beware on quality and support - what's represented in forum after forum is true. Here was my post from a while ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13943966

I now own a Lenovo T470 and it's been without a hitch since receipt and running Linux. Hopefully the new XPS 13 isn't the 7th generation Fiero that many of us assume it will be.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Lenovo ThinkPad support absolutely blows, too. I had next biz day support and a battery in my T460s died. It took two weeks of calls and emails and tweeting to find out that the replacement battery was backordered. Weeks later, I got a replacement laptop, a P50 that I had to pay extra for. Fuck Lenovo support.

Huh. I used the NBD support several years ago (around 2012) and it was literally next day.

I bought a Precision 5520 with Ubuntu pre-installed one year ago and it is still one of the best laptops I've ever purchased. My previous three were Thinkpads with the latest being an x230. The quality of the X series has really been in decline and x230 was the last straw for me (keyboard warping).

I've always heard about coil whine but maybe I just can't hear it (I'm 43). As long as the Linux support remains strong I will keep buying the Precision line.

I bought an XPS 15, also maxed out, years ago and regretted it also. I had all the power problems you mention, except the random shutoffs.

The machine was not really usable for professional work.

I now have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon 5th gen. It has no major issues and works reliably, even with Linux as the primary OS. Granted, it was more expensive, but well worth the purchase price.

Having experienced a lot of laptop over the years, higher end Thinkpad models are the most reliable. It's disappointing to hear even expensive XPS models are experiencing them same coil whine and battery issues my old Dell laptop had years ago.

Thinkpad also appears to use long lasting batteries that hold charge well. I've had 2 think pads, each 6+ years. They still hold battery for hours and hours.

I have T530 since Jan 2013 and had to replace the (Lenovo-sold) battery two times already.

I'm totally on the same boat! Failed XPS 15 9550 and migrated to ThinkPad X1 5th gen. Now perfectly happy with the latter.

The XPS had failed with ridiculous reason, I try to access the BIOS/UEFI with some key while boot up. After some tries, the machine never boot again. It founds that by pushing F8 in the wrong timing/combination while booting can cause the machine to brick forever. This is beyond the expectation of how any computer should work !

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/t/...

The XPS 13 would've been my top choice if Dell were interested in taking my money, but they're only willing to sell me one with 16GB of RAM if it also has a pro-glare display. I bought an XPS 15, which came with major backlight bleed. After field circus scheduled an appointment to replace the display the next day and didn't show, I returned it.

I paid $500 less for my X1C5, bought during the Black Friday sale. It doesn't have a dGPU (that I didn't want anyhow); but does have a WQHD display, WWAN, and a 1 TB Samsung SSD instead of a 512 GB Toshiba. No issues with Linux or OpenBSD, and the keyboard is better than both the current XPS 15/Precision 5520 and my 2013 rMBP 13". (Let's not even think about how hard the current MBPs suck.)

Looks nice, is it a bios option to switch Fn and Ctrl? That always bugged me about their layout.

Counterpoint, I have an older 9343, FHD, Broadwell-gen XPS 13.

I bought it used, from the outlet, on a lark. This was the consumer version, not even dev.

The damn thing's been the laptop equivalent of a Kabar knife. Deleted the Windows install and tossed Ubuntu on there. Then drops, generally rough treatment, and it's still running happily. No coil whine at all.

The only complaints I have were that the SSD was the Samsung model with serious degradation issues (solved via replacement), and the mouse was finicky until some patched drivers made it upstream.

I feel like quality control issues are a fact of life nowadays. (Aside from LG, because seriously, #&@$ that company for the 5x bootloop handling)

> * Coil whine

Damn it Dell, fix this shit.

It existed on my HSW XPS 13 developer edition, and this "non-developer edition" KBL XPS 13 I just purchased.

I can totally sympathize with problems like this that surface, but I have no sympathy for a company that seems to ignore this issue for several generations. My next development laptop will probably not be an XPS, and will probably not be a Dell.

I got a new XPS 13 9360 at work 3 months ago. I was afraid how bad the coil whine will be, since that was the most common complaint I found on the web about this laptop.

I can't hear any coil whine. Maybe my hearing isn't what it used to be or our office isn't that quiet, but the only thing I hear from this laptop is the fan when it's running at full speed (and that comes up very rarely in my experience so far).

> I do also recommend the touchscreen.

Care to share your usecase(s) that drive why you'd recommend the touchscreen?

On the plus side, I would imagine higher resolution translates to crisper text.

But, at the moment, I couldn't justify it to myself for several reasons:

1. Perceived negative impact on battery uptime

2. Screen wobble and fingerprints on touch

3. $350 premium over equivalent non-touch spec

I bought XPS 15 9550 two years ago, maxed out with specs, and totally regret paying extra for touch screen and the hi-def screen, what a waste of money.

the screen cannot be folded backward so touch screen cannot be used as tablet and thus wasting my money

hi-def screen is is useless on 15" display

other than that, my laptop is working fine with no HW issues

I too have an 9550, but enjoy the 4k screen a lot, it really helps with my workflow.

Re. touchscreen: The problem with them is how glossy they are. If I could get a touchscreen that doesn't reflect everything under the sun maybe I could work outside...

Mine from two years ago is still sitting broken (unable to charge). It went through so many warrenty repairs, it was completely unreliable it's entire life. Each repair just bought a few months before a different failure.

An extended warranty would not have helped in my case. That would have just extend the pain.

I'm writing this on a XPS 13 and my list of problems is similar.

- Coil whine

- noisy fans

- Computer doesn't shut down(or go to sleep) about 50% of the time. The screen turns off, but the fan stays on and the only way to wake it up again is to hold the power button down. Apparently it's a common issue with them and there's loads of threads about it on the internet with no solution anywhere.

Have you upgraded the firmware via Ubuntu Capsule upgrade?

I have, yes.

I have only great stories about Dell Laptops with the bullet-proof extended warranties. But I have those stories because I've needed the extended warranty. Is the computer still worth it for $200+ more? Mine was.

The USB C XPS13 models don't support dual MHL monitors, something which older models apparently did (and why I figured it was a safe purchase). Intel is taking a surprisingly long time to implement the necessary Thunderbolt support. Not Dell's fault, but they could at least prod the folks in Santa Clara.

I don't need the touchscreen, but it's the only way to get 16GB of RAM in the US. Really, Dell, this is totally your doing. Same with that coil whine. I thought you had sorted that out after the Latitude I bought fifteen years ago.

I have Dell XPS 13 9350 (Full HD). The computer randomly wakes up from sleep and drains the battery. And sometimes it wakes up in airplane mode. I haven't been able to solve it no matter what. Updated all drivers including BIOS, tried all the solutions people suggested online, formatted Windows, changed wifi card. Problem still continues... Also the battery life is nowhere near what they advertised. Other than that I am satisfied but this issues are so annoying that I want to change it as soon as possible.

I've bought XPS 13 around the same time also maxed out everything and can relate to 90% of your issues. I've also had firmware updates that rendered the laptop completely inoperable (a technician needed to replaced the board).

Unfortunately the level of service also dropped significantly. When I bought XPS 12 6 years ago it was stellar making me a loyal customer but now... some things can be blamed on Intel (broken Thunderbolt, and the TB15 fiasco) but not all...

> * Coil whine

That's why I intermediately returned the one I bought.

Thank you. I was really tempted to buy one since people on HN have been saying good things about it. I also had heat issues on a dell laptop years ago, sad to see it's still not fixed.

I have precision 5510, the main problem is random shutoffs, I suspect it caused by the overheating of ssd, my laptop hae 1T ssd, and several shutoffs occurs when I copying large number of files(e.g. more than 100GB), but I can't reproduce this when I perform the copy test.

I got an XPS 15 at about the same time. I've always had similar issues, especially with heat. Let me add 2 more:

* Upgrading from win 8.1 to win 10 causes frequent bluescreens unless speedstep is disabled, which leads to massive heat issues. There havn't been any driver updates since, so Dell seem to have no interest in fixing this.

* Random electric shocks where my arms touch the front of the unit while typing. Happens whether plugged in or not. Super annoying.

Overall I honestly can't recommend these. Reasonably good specs and sleek design but flaky construction and too many issues to be worth it. I'll probably get an HP next.

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