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Comment by LandR | Hacker News Reader

If you want a pay rise find a job offer with a higher salary. Go to your current manager and ask them to match. If they don't leave and go to the higher paying job.

I think that's the only way to get a pay rise nowadays, aside from small yearly raises like 2-3%

If you don't have another offer and aren't willing to walk away, you really have no leverage to ask for more money.

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I am sure that some people in some industries have success with this but there's always the risk that whoever asks for a raise in this way is going to get targeted for a staff-cut, months later, after the alternative opportunity has been passed up.

The way to do it is to look for another job and then just take that opportunity or aim for a promotion/pay-raise/departmental-shift like everyone else.

Higher-paid employees are always the targets for a staff-cut. It's still worth it to get a raise.

That depends on how much one is risking by putting their boss on the spot for an out-of-band/ultimatum raise. People can get very vindictive in response to being forced by aggressive moves like that.

If they're paying you so low that you must have a thick raise, it is probably better to go elsewhere.

It doesn't have to be aggressive, at all.

"Hey, Tom. ZipCo offered me a great position with a AB% raise. I really like the new role, but I'd prefer to stay here if we can make it work. What can we do to bridge the gap? Oh, by the way, they'd like an answer by Friday, but I'm sure I can put them off for another week."

That makes it clear that you have an offer, but would stay if the current company can match or exceed it without being too "in your face" about it. It's just business, most managers are not going to take it personally.

That might go over OK in small shops where the manager is the owner or very close to the top.

In reality, in a company of hundreds of people, that just isn't going to go smooth. Firstly because raises are performed in lock-step with annual performance reviews. Asking for a raise outside of the annual performance review time window really puts stress on the boss and casts the employee into a prima-donna.

Much better to have a frank discussion about salary if it is a problem and maintain an authentic dialog with the boss about career progression. If that isn't possible then jump ship, because it's only a matter of time before you're obsolete. The best way to keep oneself in "top-condition" as far as salary is to regularly interview and talk with potential employers and keep the professional network maintained. This way you know what you're worth and you can consider other opportunities on a regular basis in a way that is under your control.

Pulling a stunt where you force an employer to give you an "emergency" raise on your timetable might work once and for a short time at the expense of permanently damaging trust.

So I'm going to respond to one thing that stuck out to me, this is my anecdotal response to:

> because raises are performed in lock-step with annual performance reviews. Asking for a raise outside of the annual performance review time window really puts stress on the boss

so I used to think this was how things were done at my last job (mid-size ~150-200 employee company), this was the impression they liked to put out, but the reality was they would go out of their way to retain/raise people if they deserved it or were going to lose the employee (some people took advantage of this situation).

Personally, I'm not a fan of these (as you put it) "prima-donna" games unless I really think something is deserved/owed[1], luckily for everybody I was happy with my annual boosts so never did try them.

[1] I was once promoted outside of the annual cycle without asking

edit: shuffle things around

It's not that simple. Higher paid employees who received raises organically or by asking (based off of this article) are less likely to get cut compared to employees who threaten with separate offers.

I think "threaten" is the wrong word in an at-will employment context where the employee can be terminated at any time for any reason or no reason, barring exceptional circumstances involving discrimination. I'd rather view it as someone requesting a market rate salary, with proof of what constitutes market rate. Moreover, the employee didn't have to give you a chance to retain them at all. They already have an offer -- they could have instead told you that today is their last day and good luck.

If a valued employee came to me showing that he or she had received a large raise from another company and they really don't want to go but don't see how they can turn down the money, rather than resenting them I'd wonder (1) why were we underpaying a great employee at all? (2) why did we create a culture where they felt like they couldn't discuss this without another offer in hand?

Hr and employers wont see it that way they view the at will as only meant to benefit them.

I don't companies have much institutional memory why someone received a raise.

And if you accept the raise you have just proven you are not loyal and will be first up when cutbacks occur. This is terrible advice

Yes, this. I've seen it happen on several occasions.

Also: Let's say you use this tactic to strongarm the current employer into giving you a raise. But that won't make you happy. You looked for a different job because this one did not fulfill you -- and most of the time, the dissatisfaction is not money related.

If you aren't happy with the current gig, leave. If you like your job but feel you deserve more money, help the current employer recognize that and respond to it.

If you don't get more money and then don't leave then the employer has no incentive to give you more money. Wanting more money is by definition disloyal.

exactly. loyalty in employer’s eyes is to work as much as possible for as little as possible and not leave. if you require more from employer it can be interpreted as disloyalty. on yhe other hand, when employer fires employee, it’s just business.

No one talented and smart is loyal by that definition. If you get a raise, you have insurance against cutbacks, and the confidence to know you can get another job.

I wouldn't even bother asking for a raise. If the company's management is too screwed up to comp employees correctly the company is a sinking ship [sorry misspelled that the first time] anyway.

Better to just get out.

I’ve worked for lots of companies that I really liked but it is just sooo much easier to go someplace else that values you more than to ask for a raise.

This is true, but if you've already found a better offer with more money and you actually want to make the move, shouldn't you just make the move? Counter-offers seem... too late in the process.

Why did the company not pay you that to begin with? Why are they countering now, only after you got the new number? Do you really want to work for a company that undervalues you?

The answer might be "yes I love the tech and the mission so this lever is just what I needed" but I think you'll also find the underlying questions problematic.

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