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Comment by jondubois | Hacker News Reader

2 hours late is a bit extreme but I personally think that being late by up to 30 minutes is acceptable in most cases. I really don't mind at all if someone is 20 minutes late and I appreciate being given the same flexibility.

When it comes to real life and you factor in transport delays and other life factors it's not realistic to expect people to be exactly on time all the time.

The attitude in the west seems to be that if you arrive late then it's disrespectful. I feel that expecting me to be exactly on time to non-work events is even more disrespectful because the stress of trying to make it on time makes my cortisol levels go up and probably shortens my life expectancy.

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Doesn't it bother you that when you're late you're wasting other people's time and causing them stress? If you know you can't commit to being on time, why agree to it in the first place? Just tell them you'll be there some time between X and Y.

It might be nice to live on "Kenyan time" but it's not economically or socially efficient. For me, waiting around for someone is wasted time that I would otherwise have spent doing something more productive or pleasurable.

EDIT: One of the skills I associate with being a fully functional adult is the ability to account for traffic problems, their personal life, and so on when they make plans. Obviously, unforeseen events can't be helped, so I'm not annoyed with someone who is late once or twice, but if they're persistently late I'll make a negative judgement about their ability to manage themselves properly.

Why would someone being late on party or other similar socual activity stressed you? Makes no sense to me. In general, many people tend to stress over things that should not elicit that much emotional response - nothing is in danger in this case and no harm is being done.

I agree with the opinion that if you demand much punctuality for non work events, to the point that you get angry at people being late for evening beer or party, then you are high maintennance friend.

As for your other questions, if it is generally known that agreement to party at four means "sometime after four" then it means exactly that. All participants know people show up after, so they are not bothered.

> Why would someone being late on party or other similar socual activity stressed you?

I dunno. Why would making it to something on time stress you?

The answer to both is, it doesn't matter. You don't need a detailed understanding of someone's psychology to understand that doing X stresses them out and it would be kinder not to do it.

> Why would making it to something on time stress you?

If you are doing something before it is time to leave you might need to rush it to be able to leave on time. Then, after you leave you might get stuck in traffic or come across another unpredictable thing in which case you get worried that you might not make it on time.

> understanding of someone's psychology

I think punctuality is more of a cultural construction thing than an individual one. When I am in my home country I don't think twice if someone is late by 15 minutes but if I am in one of those super punctual countries I start worrying that something might be wrong when that happens. There are also differenct expectations of punctuality depending on the context. If it is a work related meeting then it is very important to get on time but if it is for a social activity then less punctuality is expected.

I haven't said any of that stresses me. I tend to be on time anyway, actually. It is true that when friend is angry with me or yell at me, I don't like that. Also, I prefer friendship of people who don't expect me to be perfect and don't act like primadonnas when things are not their way or are not super perfect.

Obviously fine when there’s a reason. Drives me crazy when there isn’t.

For example, I’ve been asked to join a meeting (online), I join, organizer is 10mins late, spends another 5mins trying to get the conferencing system working. At this point, I’m generally super annoyed. As a programmer, there’s not much of value I can do with that 15mins. I’ve also lost another 5mins because I’ve made sure to log in early so I don’t keep you waiting. I do find it very disrespectful.

> I feel that expecting me to be exactly on time to non-work events is even more disrespectful because the stress of trying to make it on time makes my cortisol levels go up and probably shortens my life expectancy.

You could always have the best of both worlds by aiming privately to get there half an hour early. If you do run late you won’t be as stressed because you have a half hour buffer and if you are on time you can just chill somewhere until the appointed time. No cortisol either way.

I usually love it when some is late because it gives me some time to relax/prepare before meeting them. I don't think others in my culture (Germany) view it the same and can understand that it's very annoying if someone is late to an important event, however.

Do that to me once without proper explanation and excuse, and consider yourself booted off any further dealings.

But then, I'm Scandinavian. Nine o'clock means nine o'clock, not five - or anything - past.

My most extreme version of this was a hiking group in Denmark.

The recommendation was to arrive by train. The event time was 13:00. On Sunday, the trains arrived at 12:32 and 13:02. Naturally, I chose the latter, and found everyone had left half an hour earlier since there was obviously noone else coming!

I've still not got the hang of what time to arrive in Denmark. I've made an effort not to be on "British time" for social events, which has made me 15-30 minutes earlier than the Danish guests as often as it's been the correct time.

Don't worry. I've lived here all my life, and I probably still haven't got the social niceties properly down. I just arrive on time. Never been a problem, but yes, there are subleties going on which I am not aware of.

The train part though: Definitely catch the early train. Two minutes late for something would generally prompt me to get hold of whoever might be expecting me: "Sorry, I'm running late".

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