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Comment by londons_explore | Hacker News Reader

In some places (eg. London), automation is totally possible, but is resisted so hard by workers unions that all other workers on the railway would go on strike until the train operator promised to rip out automated systems and return to manual operation.

On some lines, all the driver does is open and close the doors. Even getting to that level of automation caused lots of strikes.

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On the lines where they close doors (opening is automatic) even the closing could have been automated. It was made manual to keep the drivers alert.

Similar situation in Montreal. The new metro cars are fully ready to be automatically ran, but it's resisted by the union.

But if it's fully autonomous then they don't need the workers? So if they all go on strike, they can all be fired.

So is it not fully autonomous, or is there a law I'm not aware of?

You still have track workers, ticket takers, etc...

That sounds counterproductive, sort of like taxis striking against Uber. People look for other options.

When it's their whole livelihood, all they've ever known, and their families depend on it? You can hardly blame them. We need to give people other options. A lot of people who work these sorts of jobs don't have the savings that would allow them to retrain. If they lose their jobs, their families are in deep, deep trouble. This is where something like a basic income comes in. It allows workers a floor in the case their jobs get automated away. Gives them a chance to pick themselves up and find something else to do with themselves. Right now, they don't have that, so they -- understandably -- fight tooth and nail against being automated away (to everybody's detriment).

They should have savings. Tube drivers in London earn a lot of money:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transpo...

It's not a very skilled job.

It seemed that way, then I got a train driving simulator. Buy a train simulator (Train Sim 2018 is what I have) and try to drive a train to the timetable. Then play with the conditions (raining, autumn, midnight). Then realise that you need to do this without the map at the bottom of the screen. Then try to understand all the rules and regulations that a train driving simulator doesn't simulate, like how to walk down the track safely (old training videos are on YouTube are very interesting).

Also, in real life, train drivers are responsible for the safety of the passengers on the train, and also have to deal with the aftermath if anyone ends up being in front of the train.

If I was a train driver, I would like to be paid enough to cover all of that!

The average tube driver's pay is ~42,000 pounds. That converts to $56,000 a year. That's not a very high income. That's solidly lower middle class depending on where you're living and whether you're single or the primary wage earner for your family. London is one of the highest cost of living areas in the world.

A family living in London with that income -- even if the second parent is also working -- is unlikely to have any savings. Unless the second family member has a high income information, tech, or finance job.

How about this: stop hiring new conductors and allow the ones currently working to continue as long as their union rules require.

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