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Comment by colordrops | Hacker News Reader

Someone always makes a statement like this in every thread about bitcoin, without any evidence or reasoning to back it up. The benefits and unique aspects of cryptocurrencies have been enumerated ad infinitum, and to continue to claim that it's all a scam at this point is analogous to claiming the internet was just a scam in 1999, after it was obvious to many people that it was not. This labeling is only evidence of abject ignorance.

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What do you mean without any reasoning? I gave a very precise argument on why and how I think they are similar. Why don’t you try to debunk my argument instead of a generic reply?

Cryptocurrency has many positive values that are not replicated by any other financial instrument when taken together as a whole:

* No middle man

* Nearly instant transfer at low cost

* Non-geographically bound

* Non-governmentally bound

* Potentially untraceable depending on how you use it

* Incorruptible

* Uncensorable

* No central point of failure

* Transparent and open (as in source and freedom)

* Programmable and automatable

* It is the first system to solve the byzantine generals problem.

My point though is that anyone who has been paying at least even slight attention would know that there is a purpose and value to the design of and usage of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and to claim otherwise is an embarrassing display of ignorance.

My argument was specific to Bitcoin, not against cryptocurrency as a technology.

Everything I said applies to Bitcoin, which is arguably the most legitimate instance of cryptocurrency.

Nearly instant transfer at low cost?

Depends on what you compare it to, such as Western Union or gold. But if you can really only find one nit out of the ten or so things I listed, I don't consider my argument debunked.

That is cool, but the reason the existing monetary system doesn't have those properties is because government purposely didn't include them. Things like "Uncensorable" and "Non-governmentally bound" and "Untraceable" might yet be tested and turn out to be illegal - falling afoul of, eg, laws against financing terrorists.

If bitcoin attracts regulations, the technical aspects will lose to the social aspects. Overwhelming majorities of people obey financial law - see also, the tax system; people aren't in that voluntarily. These are not proven positive values. Yet.

That's a particular government's problem, not a problem with bitcoin. Considering that Bitcoin is non-local, there will always be a jurisdiction somewhere that allows transactions that are restricted somewhere else. That was the whole point behind Satoshi's design - to work around corrupt and overly restrictive governmental financial systems. If you find a problem with that, then fine, but it's not what we are discussing here, which is the claim that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.

Wasn't the whole "no middle man" thing mostly about avoiding the 3% Credit Card Processing fees found elsewhere? Bitcoin is now more expensive to verify than most credit card processors[0].

"Nearly instant transfer at low cost" it is no longer instant or low cost. Confirmation times[1] have now skyrocketed and as I showed above as have costs. This is why Valve's Steam no longer accepts it.

"No central point of failure" like Mt. Gox[2]? And the recent currency split[3]?

[0] https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees...

[1] https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-confirmation-time

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_Cash

It is nearly instant when compared to most money transfer services or gold, and low cost is relative, and depends on the coin and time of transfer. Bitcoin cash, which you link to, is both fast and cheap to transfer.

Mt. Gox is not Bitcoin. It was an exchange. It has nothing to do with whether Bitcoin has a central point of failure or not.

Nearly instant?:) Compared to what? I got money transfer between banks, by wire, from the US to the end of the world in less than a day. You can't get 3 confirmations on a BTC transaction in 24 hours!

> No central point of failure

It's looking like the dev team behind bitcoin is the central point of failure given recent political fights.

> No middle man

If the lightning network becomes a thing then bitcoin will have lots of middle men. Coinbase already is one in practice.

> Nearly instant transfer at low cost

People have already pointed out that this is totally false.

> Incorruptible

In what sense? How can any financial instrument by corrupted? There's definitely corruption at bitcoin-related institutions.

> It is the first system to solve the byzantine generals problem.

No?

> Non-governmentally bound

only if you are willing to break the law. which is true for lots of financial instruments.

I would have agreed with you to a certain degree if this post was just about BTC. OP asked about crypto-market, and BTC can’t represent all of it even if it has the lion share. Your response paints everything as Ponzi scheme (or that’s how interpreted it) which is unfair to serious projects.

If I am not mistaken the original title was about Bitcoin.

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